And even when they do, they tend to offer something to veterans (and no, the party jawa does not cover this as you had to be subscribed post f2p announcement and have an active account on nov 15th.)
Also sorry, but the party jawa is way too awesome to discount entirely.
My thought pattern goes back to my Kindle Fire analogy. I realize that by paying nothing I am receiving an experience that (by someone) has been deemed as the "free" experience. Really, getting to play this $150mil+ game for free is a pretty damn good deal to start with, because for all of the little personal preference issues and things people have, it's a damn good game overall, especially to get to play it for free.
If I'm a business trying to make money, I'm going to do everything I can to get people to pay me money. If that means making life tough for people getting it for free, while also showing them how much better it could be if they drop a few bucks, then that's the way to go. It's commercialism, and it's really OK. Because the truth is that the people who want the "premium" experience will pay the premium. The people who want the minimum (and possibly more difficult?) experience will either live with what they're getting for free or they will pay the premium.
It's just business. If you're hungry, but don't have a ton of money, you will order the single and skip the cheese. If you want more, you order the triple with extra sauce and bacon.
I totally understand your analogy. I just don't think it's fair to call it abuse. Getting something - let alone a freaking video game - for free can't really be described as abuse. That's a little ridiculous.
Those feelings are what decide if people spend money or time playing swtor.
Like I said, I don't think swtor's model is abusive. I have been defending it to the point where people think I work for EA. They wear tinfoil hats.
But the fact that they do is important none the less... And unfortunately it doesn't seem to be a small group of people.
Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-11-28 at 07:34 PM.
I don't think that's the argument at all.
I think the argument is that it's FREE, and you don't have to play it, so there's little to no sense in bitching about it.
You know what you get for free, and you know what you get if you pay. So you choose to play for free or you choose to play under a subscription. I'm not defending anything, not talking about how much they have to make money, etc. Just saying that you know very clearly up front what the limitations of f2p are, and by the fact that you are getting a very good SOMETHING for free, complaining about it is silly.
MMOs as a genre are a very intimate product given how closely the experience between the developer and the individual is. It's an outdated ideology to discuss video games as a product that has no affect on our livelihoods. People might not like that things have gone that way, but technology as a whole has been literally aiming for this comingling of life and their products.
It is entirely valid to classify certain company behavior as 'abuse' of their customer base. The concept isn't new in that regard either. Think of how long people have been railing against the tobacco industry for the exact same thing. They know there are segments of the market they can target (due to addiction) that they can easily take advantage of. Similar ethical constructs are being transposed into things like game company interaction with their consumers for good reason.
edit: Keep in mind, bitching got the model from 1 action bar to 4 and 3 warzones to 5.
Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-11-28 at 07:41 PM.
Yeah, you don't have to play it, there's another Star Wars MMO out there worth playi-oh right, there isn't. When it comes to MMOs, if your interest is Star Wars, this is the only game in town, and if you see things you dislike, you have every right to bring up the issues, and use existing, successful, models as examples of how things could be done better. With the, 'you don't have to play it' mindset, there wouldn't be a single playable F2P MMO out there, F2P MMO have feedback and changes all the time from their audience, and they should have such feedback. Get over it.I think the argument is that it's FREE, and you don't have to play it, so there's little to no sense in bitching about it.
I'm a ridiculously well-seasoned gamer, and although I'm now a professional with a family, I play a LOT and games are very much a product with tremendous involvement in my life. Just ask my wife...
---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 02:47 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 02:49 PM ----------
Just saying it's free. What do you have to complain about if it's free? Subscribe... then complain. From the company's standpoint, they have nothing to lose if you hate the f2p model, because you're not paying anyways. It's when you sub and then quit that will get their attention (theoretically).
I'm just saying that like... 99% of the complaints about the f2p system are all solved by subscribing, which is clearly EA's intent (abuse or not).
If you want more quickbars, or feel that leveling is slow, or want more gear, or want to be able to do more FPs or WZs, or want to chat, or don't want to spend money on Cartel Coins but want the swag... the sub option is there.
Basically, people are bitching about not getting the premium experience when they're not paying for a premium experience. And no, you don't have any justification for bitching about that, and you're not going to.
I drive a Chevy Malibu because I can't afford an Aston Martin. I'm not calling Chevy and complaining that my car isn't an Aston Martin. I'm getting what I paid for.
Last edited by Leadsop; 2012-11-28 at 07:53 PM.
So yeah, they do have a lot to lose if players hate the F2P model.
And again, the "sub or shut up" argument doesn't fly. The game clearly hasn't been worth the sub for most people so far, so they needed to find other ways to get people playing and paying. They haven't really changed what the subscription provides, so there's not all that much of an incentive to come back and subscribe beyond checking out a bit of the new content for a month. Them trying to force people back into the subscription model that people clearly didn't like to begin with is pretty foolish.
"People are bitching about having to either grind or pay for near premium experience" (Can't call it premium till they include ranked and hm/nmm)
That said, I encourage their bitching because they vocalize what many who are not active on forums are probably thinking when picking their MMO of choice.
---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 08:10 PM ----------
They need to complete their f2p model by adding ranked wz authorization and hm/nmm operations authorization.
I say authorization because I would imagine it as an unlock that would essentially upgrade your weekly passes.
That and advanced artifact authorization.
*Note that I am not asking these things to be free. On the contrary, I am suggesting that they cost cartel coins or be sold on the GTN.
F2P needs to be another way to play Swtor, in its entirety, where you pick and choose what you want. Where as subscription would be a "full access pass" which would be essentially a discount compared to trying to buy access to everything as a F2P account.
Trying to shove people into a subscription when they already made it clear that they don't like subscriptions isn't a good idea.
The problem with your kindle analogy is that it's not accurate.
F2P don't get the basic experience with optional extras to buy. They get a reduced and cripled experience with the option to pay for the basic experience.
Subscribers get the basic experience but they have to pay for it and soon they have to pay for the updates too.
It should be that F2P get the basic experience and get the option to pay for extra content and updates if they want and that subscribers who pay monthly get an enhanced experience and the updates for free and even getting rewarded with CC to buy vanity stuff for free that F2P have to pay for.
It should be that F2P gets the oppertunity to enjoy the game and feel that this is something they really enjoy and don't mind spending some money on occasionally and perhaps even subscribing because they feel that they're spending so much time in the game that it's worth it and the extra stuff you get as a subscriber looks really interesting.
Instead we have a system that criples the basic experience with restrictions and reductions on everything you encounter from the very moment you create a character with reminders that you could have it better if you pay for it.
EA is showing you that this is what you could experience but you can't because if you want it you have to pay and if you don't feel it's worth it then fuck off.
How is that system going to attract more players?
If anything the subscribers should be the ones complaining the most since all they get is the very basic experience without anything extra except some free CC each month.
To use your Kindle analogy:
-F2P gets the Kindle but all we can do is turn it on and watch the starting screen and nothing else unless we pay for it.
-Subscribers gets the Kindle and can use it for it's very basic functionality and there are no extra stuff like Amazon Prime (though you do get rid of the adds(restriction reminders))
And you're saying it's fine and F2P shouldn't complain because they get the Kindle for free. What good is a Kindle that only shows the starting screen?
Also I'm not saying F2P should get everything for free. There's nothing wrong with restrictions like races etc but there is a limit to how many restrictions you can have and EA crossed that line and just continued towards the horizon.
I also think the Legacy system could have been made into a subscriber feature. It's nothing game breaking but it adds lots of fun and enjoyment to the game and even some gameplay bonus from having all class buffs etc.
Last edited by Saitan; 2012-11-28 at 08:59 PM.
Without spending money.
Without spending money.
Without spending money.
Even if an unlock isn't on the GTN there is always trade chat.
But hey, if the free players should pay, or get out, and they choose to get out, well.. I'm curious what the population of the game would look like after a year.
I'm not discussing the merits of the f2p system at all. I have my own thoughts about that and whether it works or not.
I'm merely discussing the implications/value of complaining about not receiving the subscription perks when people are not subscribed.
OT: Ultimately, I want the game to succeed just as we all do. I think the f2p system works fairly well. I have quite a few friends who came in under f2p and who are now subscribed. I would make a few changes based on my past gaming experiences, but for the most part I think it's doing its job. There are certainly a ton more people playing. Like everyone else, I wish it were free to play everything, but I have paid for MMOs since WOW's launch and also just got my 10-year XBOX Live subscriber reward, so I'm ok with paying for things I like to do. I don't understand why people feel like they should get all of the benefits of a subscription for free. Does not compute. I wish there was a hell of a lot more Star Wars in this Star Wars game. To me it feels a lot more like SpaceWOW than Star Wars, but I love Star Wars (the franchise) so I quit WOW and am hooked on this game.
There are certainly things I would change about this game, but for my money, and for as much as I enjoy it, I choose to accept those things as they are and keep going because ultimately I'm having fun and for as much bitching about how "game-breaking" the shitty SWTOR GTN is, there's nothing in SWTOR that is "game-breaking." This term is stupid and gets thrown around way too much when people just don't like something. If you want "game-breaking" play Superman64.
Last edited by Leadsop; 2012-11-30 at 12:33 PM.