Warriors in RBG's

[Kildragon]

Hey all, I'm running with this semi steady RBG group right now and I was just wondering where Warriors are supposed to be on the meters at this point. We have 2 Warriors with us and they don't seem to be putting out a lot of damage. Are they supposed to be far behind Locks, Mages, and DK's in damage? They hurt in Arena but is it the same for RBG's. Also, is Fury viable for RBG's at all? If no, why isn't it viable?

[Redlikemyrage]

Being that far behind all of those classes in RBGs isn't surprising, considering all of the classes you listed can do more burst than a warrior can without our CDs. So while we remain viable in arenas because of this, I'm sure this would be why you are so far behind those particular classes.

As far as Fury, I believe not, but I'm not really sure why, that just seems to be the consensus of everything I've seen on the subject.

[broods]

Being that far behind all of those classes in RBGs isn't surprising, considering all of the classes you listed can do more burst than a warrior can without our CDs. So while we remain viable in arenas because of this, I'm sure this would be why you are so far behind those particular classes.

As far as Fury, I believe not, but I'm not really sure why, that just seems to be the consensus of everything I've seen on the subject.

Shouldn't lag behind if they play aggressively. Obviously a DK and such will probably do more with all their dots and stuff but warriors can put out a lot of damage and shouldn't really die much if at all.

[Gandrake]

I haven't done any rbgs this season, but I've heard tell of russian wintraders raping kids with gorefiend's grasp into ursol's vortex into TG reckstorms.

or something

idk

[scadouche]

Warriors are middle of the pack in RBGs currently. They have great burst on your initial push. Make sure they line their Skull Banner with the rest of the groups CD's, not just their own. For a warrior to be more effective in BGs your healers need to be on the ball with dispels.

[Ondonnick]

I really don't think meters matter in RBG's and damage done can't really show if the warriors are carrying their weight. First off the thing warriors bring most is utility, aoe stun, aoe slow, aoe fear,aoe spell reflect, raid wide rally cry, skull banner, demo banner, almost endless interupts, with 2 warriors you can have an aoe root also if they spec into it. None of those things will show up on dps meters, btw our burst is pretty good as well. On the fury note i don't see why they wouldn't be viable since they have access to all the same utility talents I mentioned.

[Skarssen]

Warrior damage isn't going to compete with overall damage from DoT classes, but that isn't really a negative for warriors. They still have great single target burst and a huge amount of utility and defense. No other melee can put up so much pressure on a single target AND retain the defensive ability that warriors have right now.

As for fury, the main drawback is inconsistent rage. Arms doesn't have to worry about misses in PVP, overpower costs no rage, has potential for huge burst with TfB and it doesn't have to burn berserker rage to ensure access to its most damaging attack. A TG-bladestorm hurts, sure, but lack of rage and low raging blow availability just make fury seem far less effective than arms.

[Kildragon]

Shouldn't lag behind if they play aggressively. Obviously a DK and such will probably do more with all their dots and stuff but warriors can put out a lot of damage and shouldn't really die much if at all.

Well Mages don't really play Fire in RBG's anymore so it's not like they have big Combustion and Living Bomb spreads. As for my Lock, I play Destro so I'm not exactly a DoT spec anymore. RoF does contribute to my overall damage by quite a bit, but I'm pulling anywhere from 10 mil to 16 mil in a single RBG depending on the map and my role, while I haven't seen our Warriors break 7 million.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 02:47 PM ----------

I really don't think meters matter in RBG's and damage done can't really show if the warriors are carrying their weight. First off the thing warriors bring most is utility, aoe stun, aoe slow, aoe fear,aoe spell reflect, raid wide rally cry, skull banner, demo banner, almost endless interupts, with 2 warriors you can have an aoe root also if they spec into it. None of those things will show up on dps meters, btw our burst is pretty good as well. On the fury note i don't see why they wouldn't be viable since they have access to all the same utility talents I mentioned.

Damage does and doesn't matter in RBG's. Any damage going out needs to be healed, so if you have a team of 6 DPS pushing out more than 10 million damage every game you're going to destroy other teams. My warriors aren't even breaking 7 mil though, so I was wondering if it's them or if that's normal.

Btw, we're currently running with 2 Hunters, 2 Warriors, 2 Frost DKs, and myself as a Destro Lock. When we call quick target swaps things still don't die right away, which is why I was wondering if they are just doing something wrong.

[Halios]

Warriors are very reliant on freedom of movement to really perform. Going against a high CC team without a lot of cc breakers available will result in crappy warrior numbers, however packing warriors together with FDKs (to pull) and pallies (to freedom) is generally ideal. They won't do well if they're the only melee in your group, and you're going up against a spellcleave team.

As far as Fury vs. Arms, Arms is still considered the strongest because of the removal of RNG from their damage. Fury needs to be enraged as well as have a bloodsurge proc to really push out burst damage, and enraging requires being in melee range (barring berserker rage), which, again, is tough against strong CC groups. Arms is full of guarantees. If you MS, you WILL get Overpower, and if you have 30 rage, you CAN slam/execute. That combined with the extremely rewarding RNG of TFB, where you can suddenly hit extremely hard, as well as the much more frequent use of Colossus Smash, makes Arms the ideal pvp spec.

The ONLY argument for Fury is that TG Bladestorm hits INSANELY hard (with cooldowns popped), and Fury burst CAN be really high if the stars align correctly. It's just not as reliable as Arms.

[Kildragon]

As for fury, the main drawback is inconsistent rage. Arms doesn't have to worry about misses in PVP, overpower costs no rage, has potential for huge burst with TfB and it doesn't have to burn berserker rage to ensure access to its most damaging attack. A TG-bladestorm hurts, sure, but lack of rage and low raging blow availability just make fury seem far less effective than arms.

So is the Berserker Rage thing the main reason for Fury not being that great? Cause I thought that normal melee swings don't generate rage anymore, so missing those normal attacks doesn't make much of a difference.

[Halios]

Depends on the Stance. Most Warriors will go into battle stance when they're not being focused, which allows them to generate rage from swings.

[Kildragon]

Isn't that offset by the increased attack speed from dual wielding?

OT: Still wondering if 7 million damage in RBG's is decent or far below par.

[Halios]

Depends on what everyone else is at. When you're looking at the dps rankings, look at the comp of the other team. If they're a low CC high melee comp, your melee should be VERY high. If they're a high CC team, and your melee are spending most of their time tapping their feet in Frost novas and Circles and Fears, then you should be looking to your healers and your own CCers to provide more support. If they are, then your melee just aren't avoiding CCs at all.
ccc

[Kildragon]

As mentioned before, we run with 2 Frost DK's, 2 Warriors and 2 Hunters besides me on my Warlock. The DKs and myself are top for damage every BG, but the Warriors are generally putting out 4-5 million less than we are. With such a melee heavy team, I find it hard to imagine every CC landing on both of our Warriors and none of it on the DK's.