Page 1 of 20
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Item Upgrade is Just Another Grind

    I keep seeing the sentiment that the new item upgrade feature is just a new means of gear progression. I do not see it this way. In fact, I'm seeing this feature as a total game-changer, and not necessarily in a good way. Here's what I'm seeing:

    1) Encounters will now be tuned to a certain level of gear enhancement. For hard modes to remain hard, the bosses will need to be tuned to impossibility for starting raid gear to prevent them from becoming far, far too easy with upgraded at-level gear.

    2) Gear drops will be far less exciting and/or necessary. Finally got that drop that you needed? Great! It will be an awesome upgrade in 3 weeks after you've upgraded it twice! For that matter, will guilds even allow looting based on future upgrades? Cue loot drama.

    3) Yet another mechanism de-emphasizing raiding and over-emphasizing grinding outside of raid hours. Bosses don't drop the best gear; they now drop mediocre gear that becomes the best only through hours of grinding dailies, dungeons, and scenarios that you've already done dozens if not hundreds of times.

    4) If anyone thinks that item upgrades aren't going to be scrutinized in the social game the way gems, enchants, and rep are, then you're in for a rude awakening. Cheers to another non-optional "option."

    Unlike other games with gear-upgrade progression (TERA), WoW has a raiding culture that requires a non-hardcore raider to devote 9-12 hours per week to raiding progression. The trade-off was that you were rewarded with a chance at the best gear in the game. Now it rewards you with gear you can use to go grind out valor cap to upgrade it.

    If you think Blizz is just going to allow tier after tier to be easily out-geared by upgrades, you should think again. What is "optional" now is what will be "mandatory" tomorrow for dps checks, healing checks, and raid-leader dedication benchmarks.

    This is not a good thing.

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,644
    With that kind of attitude, why do you play the game?
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  3. #3
    It's not another grind, it's the same grind you've been doing. Valor points aren't some new currency you weren't doing anything to obtain before now.

  4. #4
    Any gear past what you get when you create a character is a "grind" by your definition.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgetjones View Post
    I keep seeing the sentiment that the new item upgrade feature is just a new means of gear progression. I do not see it this way. In fact, I'm seeing this feature as a total game-changer, and not necessarily in a good way. Here's what I'm seeing:

    1) Encounters will now be tuned to a certain level of gear enhancement. For hard modes to remain hard, the bosses will need to be tuned to impossibility for starting raid gear to prevent them from becoming far, far too easy with upgraded at-level gear.

    2) Gear drops will be far less exciting and/or necessary. Finally got that drop that you needed? Great! It will be an awesome upgrade in 3 weeks after you've upgraded it twice! For that matter, will guilds even allow looting based on future upgrades? Cue loot drama.

    3) Yet another mechanism de-emphasizing raiding and over-emphasizing grinding outside of raid hours. Bosses don't drop the best gear; they now drop mediocre gear that becomes the best only through hours of grinding dailies, dungeons, and scenarios that you've already done dozens if not hundreds of times.

    4) If anyone thinks that item upgrades aren't going to be scrutinized in the social game the way gems, enchants, and rep are, then you're in for a rude awakening. Cheers to another non-optional "option."

    Unlike other games with gear-upgrade progression (TERA), WoW has a raiding culture that requires a non-hardcore raider to devote 9-12 hours per week to raiding progression. The trade-off was that you were rewarded with a chance at the best gear in the game. Now it rewards you with gear you can use to go grind out valor cap to upgrade it.

    If you think Blizz is just going to allow tier after tier to be easily out-geared by upgrades, you should think again. What is "optional" now is what will be "mandatory" tomorrow for dps checks, healing checks, and raid-leader dedication benchmarks.

    This is not a good thing.
    Baddie posting about how he won't be able to clear casual content 4 ilvls above his gear, that's how I read it.

    [Infracted. Please do not insult other posters. -Tziva]
    Last edited by Tziva; 2012-11-27 at 07:53 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by galluk View Post
    Meh, you can use honor to. So just get a nice bot, run heroics while at work, and come home and upgrade. Pretty much exactly what BLizz is hoping you'll do.
    Honor doesn't work for epics. Honor and Justice points upgrade rare items (ilvl 463 and below) whereas Conquest/Valor upgrade epics.

    In other words, you can't mindlessly farm Heroics or PVP to upgrade in one day. Sorry, still can only upgrade so much a week.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    It's not another grind, it's the same grind you've been doing. Valor points aren't some new currency you weren't doing anything to obtain before now.
    I quit dailies when I got the rep I needed with the factions I needed to get the gear I needed. I didn't like doing it then because it was not fun, but I did it anyway because there was an end in sight, and I enjoy raiding enough to tolerate 2 months of monotonous, loathesome questing.

    This change means there is no end in sight to dailies at any point ever. At least before this you could get a raid drop and not have to worry about that 2200 point valor piece. Now, getting the drop is just the beginning of getting that particular slot completed.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    31,729
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgetjones View Post
    I keep seeing the sentiment that the new item upgrade feature is just a new means of gear progression. I do not see it this way. In fact, I'm seeing this feature as a total game-changer, and not necessarily in a good way. Here's what I'm seeing:

    1) Encounters will now be tuned to a certain level of gear enhancement. For hard modes to remain hard, the bosses will need to be tuned to impossibility for starting raid gear to prevent them from becoming far, far too easy with upgraded at-level gear.

    2) Gear drops will be far less exciting and/or necessary. Finally got that drop that you needed? Great! It will be an awesome upgrade in 3 weeks after you've upgraded it twice! For that matter, will guilds even allow looting based on future upgrades? Cue loot drama.
    1 - Why? It's a way to improve and max yourself a little. It's not an enormous upgrade. We're talking, per item, of 60 - 100 of a stat, which in MoP isn't very much considering a single gem will have more of a stat than 2 levels of upgrading.

    2 - The upgrading doesn't change the base stats. A poorly itemized item, even upgraded, may not be the best item over a non-upgraded but better itemized item.

    I think you're blowing this out of proportion.



  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgetjones View Post
    I keep seeing the sentiment that the new item upgrade feature is just a new means of gear progression. I do not see it this way. In fact, I'm seeing this feature as a total game-changer, and not necessarily in a good way. Here's what I'm seeing:

    1) Encounters will now be tuned to a certain level of gear enhancement. For hard modes to remain hard, the bosses will need to be tuned to impossibility for starting raid gear to prevent them from becoming far, far too easy with upgraded at-level gear.

    2) Gear drops will be far less exciting and/or necessary. Finally got that drop that you needed? Great! It will be an awesome upgrade in 3 weeks after you've upgraded it twice! For that matter, will guilds even allow looting based on future upgrades? Cue loot drama.

    3) Yet another mechanism de-emphasizing raiding and over-emphasizing grinding outside of raid hours. Bosses don't drop the best gear; they now drop mediocre gear that becomes the best only through hours of grinding dailies, dungeons, and scenarios that you've already done dozens if not hundreds of times.

    4) If anyone thinks that item upgrades aren't going to be scrutinized in the social game the way gems, enchants, and rep are, then you're in for a rude awakening. Cheers to another non-optional "option."

    Unlike other games with gear-upgrade progression (TERA), WoW has a raiding culture that requires a non-hardcore raider to devote 9-12 hours per week to raiding progression. The trade-off was that you were rewarded with a chance at the best gear in the game. Now it rewards you with gear you can use to go grind out valor cap to upgrade it.

    If you think Blizz is just going to allow tier after tier to be easily out-geared by upgrades, you should think again. What is "optional" now is what will be "mandatory" tomorrow for dps checks, healing checks, and raid-leader dedication benchmarks.

    This is not a good thing.
    Oh for the love of god stop crying already. Let me see if I get this straight. Dailies are boring and a grind. Now essentially you are saying the method by which we used to get gear (run dungeons for valor) is also a grind too. What the fuck do you people want? Blizzard just needs to stick a vendor in Org with all the gear on it for free to shut you people up for once and for all. Oh wait I bet getting gear for free would be a grind too.

  10. #10
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kanda's House
    Posts
    7,111
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I think you're blowing this out of proportion.
    And so the revelation is given from Darsithis, as to how 90% of the people complaining about Dailies and Valor react to things.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by meroko View Post
    Honor doesn't work for epics. Honor and Justice points upgrade rare items (ilvl 463 and below) whereas Conquest/Valor upgrade epics.

    In other words, you can't mindlessly farm Heroics or PVP to upgrade in one day. Sorry, still can only upgrade so much a week.
    And this is different from before how exactly?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Any gear past what you get when you create a character is a "grind" by your definition.
    Actually, no. If you think about the history of the game or even the genre, most of the best gear comes from killing big monsters. Some gear comes from professions, some comes from luck, and some comes from "casual" content. The heart of the game has always been killing monsters.

    Now it's doing the same quests over and over and over and over and over every single day of the week. That's a grind. As a fan of the Korean MMO, I think I know a grind when I see one.

  13. #13
    Warchief Skorpionss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bucharest, Romania
    Posts
    2,170
    MMOS ARE ALWAYS GRINDY... when will people get this ? name ONE mmo where you don't grind something... be it currency, gear, quests(yes quests are grind too since most of them are go there kill that) that's the core of MMO and it will always be that for as long as developers care for keeping their playerbase... because let's be real if there is no grind why keep playing more than a few days ?

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2,910
    Welcome to mmos where everything is a grind. Do people not do research before they set foot into this genre?

  15. #15
    Instead of making another qq thread about the ilvl upgrade, why not write on that one?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgetjones View Post
    I quit dailies when I got the rep I needed with the factions I needed to get the gear I needed. I didn't like doing it then because it was not fun, but I did it anyway because there was an end in sight, and I enjoy raiding enough to tolerate 2 months of monotonous, loathesome questing.

    This change means there is no end in sight to dailies at any point ever. At least before this you could get a raid drop and not have to worry about that 2200 point valor piece. Now, getting the drop is just the beginning of getting that particular slot completed.
    What? You do realize you still get valor from dungeons, raids, scenarios and LFR right? In fact just by running 1 5 man and 1 scenario a day and run LFR you are able to valor cap without touching one single daily. So again what do you want?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    And this is different from before how exactly?
    It's different because 1) you used to get valor cap from raiding, 2) you used to not need valor if you got a raid drop, and 3) it used to take significantly less time to valor cap and the weekly cap was higher.

    So it's extremely different, yes.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    And so the revelation is given from Darsithis, as to how 90% of the people complaining about Dailies and Valor react to things.
    It just proves what I have been saying all along about this terrible community. It is infested with people who live to complain and are never happy about anything and have no problem shouting down people with valid concerns while they spam the ever living hell out of the forums with their inane QQ on a daily basis.

  19. #19
    Everything is a "grind" don't play the game if you don't enjoy it.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    It's not another grind, it's the same grind you've been doing. Valor points aren't some new currency you weren't doing anything to obtain before now.
    Except i was happy with Valor gear being outdated already and i only need to acually FARM for the VP at the start of every new content patch. Now i'll HAVE to cap it each and every freaking fucking week, which is imho, a real bitch. I am not happy about it to be quite honest.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •