requiring PvP to do a pve quest chain is beyond retarded.

[Veliladon]

First They Added... (An Ode to Casuals)

First they added LFR. But I didn't speak out because I liked LFR.
Then they added CRZ. But I didn't speak out because I didn't care about CRZ.
Then they added dailies. But I didn't speak out because I liked dailies.
Then they added PvP. But nobody was left to speak for me.

[stumpy]

How about you quote the rest of my post? Where I say that if you are a dedicated raider in your guild and are part of the main raid team? You ARE being forced into PvP, It is as simple as that. In a raiding guild would they rather have you with no Legendary weapon? Or someone that has a legendary weapon? Well, The choice is obvious.

In a raiding situation it is pure stupidity to ignore the legendary questline. It is flatout required to get it. There is no "Personal feelings" because that would imply I have a CHOICE to PvP or not to complete the quest, and I don't.

Sounds like you should be grouping with your fellow legendary-seeking leet raider guildies to get this done.

[Deleted]

Be that as it may, this sets a terrible precedent. If Blizzard creates a PvP quest in the middle of a PvE chain and they find high completion rates, they could see that as the go-ahead to insert other PvP-related quests into PvE areas. Want to level your character to lv95? Well first you're going to have to kill 6 boars, collect 10 crates of meat, and kill 5 other players in World PvP. Hey, you're not being forced to do it, it will just make leveling easier, right?

That already happened with MoP, they nerfed the XP from winning alterac valley which destroyed the only viable source of experience points.

[Tucci]

For ages PvP players have complained to no end about having to do PvE for gear that is worthwhile in Arena / Battlegrounds. Why is Blizzard suddenly reversing the dynamic, and why are PvE players not allowed to voice their dissent when it happens?

Because it's 10 random BG's and just not worth complaining over.

[Clarke]

theres probably 5-10 other people in you're guild thats going to be on the same part, so I don't see why you couldn't just get a group going for 10 easy random wins.... honestly you don't use half of your abilities in PvE so getting in some pvp wouldn't be that bad for people who haven't done it in awhile

[Fat Mac]

Regardless of ease of completion or pedantic bickering over legendaries, some of us just don't like PvP.

....then dont do it ....whoa

[Elysara]

....then dont do it ....whoa

You ARE being forced into PvP, It is as simple as that. In a raiding guild would they rather have you with no Legendary weapon? Or someone that has a legendary weapon? Well, The choice is obvious.

In a raiding situation it is pure stupidity to ignore the legendary questline. It is flat-out dumb to ignore it. There is no "Choice" because that would imply I have a CHOICE to PvP or not to complete the quest, and in this case I don't. They are forcing people into PvP because of the MASSIVE force of bots in BGs now.

They think shoving people into doing something they don't want to do will fix the botting problem, It won't. As soon as Raiders are done being forced to win 10 BG's...Which may be harder on some battlegroups than others. They will forget PvP ever existed after a heavy night of drinking.

[SherbertLand]

I'm surprised at how many pvpers there are that are open to a floodgate of those who have never pvped and have negative feelings about pvp. Negative enough feelings to just afk until they get 10 wins while they watch tv.

[lunchbox2042]

People wanted war brought back into Warcraft. Now they get it and do nothing but complain that they have to pvp. Just afk in bgs like everyone else does these days if it bothers you that much.

[IxilaFA]

That already happened with MoP, they nerfed the XP from winning alterac valley which destroyed the only viable source of experience points.

What does that have to do with anything? Go read my post again and realize the point I was trying to make. PvErs don't want PvP content in their quests. This sort of questline only promises that we'll see more of it to come.

Because it's 10 random BG's and just not worth complaining over.

I've already said twice that I agree with this point. I also said that it sets a dangerous precedent where Blizzard might see it as worthwhile to start mixing PvP and PvE together, and I know neither side wants that.

theres probably 5-10 other people in you're guild thats going to be on the same part, so I don't see why you couldn't just get a group going for 10 easy random wins.... honestly you don't use half of your abilities in PvE so getting in some pvp wouldn't be that bad for people who haven't done it in awhile

I would be lucky to find 5-10 people in my guild even online when there's not a raid going on. Plus about 90% of my guild sucks at PvP almost as much as I do. If we form a group together we'd be pretty damn awful.

....then dont do it ....whoa

Sure, you go tell your raid leader that you won't upgrade your gear because you don't want to do PvP and see how long you have a raiding spot.

[dercaderca]

Stop using this cop out. They are FORCING people into doing PvP, Now I know what I sound like but hear me out for a minute...

More often than not people pick what they want to focus on in the game. Wether they want to be that "Supa pro 1337" rogue in arena, Or a fully heroic BiS geared Tank,DPS or Healer. They pick PvP or PvE and stick with that side of the game, Sometimes dabbling in the other just for fun.

Now imagine someone on the PvE side of the game. They are a healer on the main raid team for the guild and let's say they don't like PvP and have never really touched it. Well, thanks to the legendary quest now this main raid team healer who DESPIES PvP is now forced into doing 10 battlegrounds against their will, And let's not even star the discussion of if their battlegroup sucks and wins every other 15 battlegrounds.

ONTOP of that, They are forcing people to PvP because of the MASSIVE amount of botting that is going on with PvP right now. I have heard the 'horror' stories of being the only human on your team, Or the ENTIRE enemy team being 100% bots.

Is a Blizzard employee standing next to with a gun pointed at your head and saying "WIN 10 BG'S RIGHT MEOW OR I'LL SPLATTER YOUR BRAINS ALL OVER YOUR MONITOR." Nope, didn't think so. You're not being forced to do anything.

[stumpy]

I would be lucky to find 5-10 people in my guild even online when there's not a raid going on. Plus about 90% of my guild sucks at PvP almost as much as I do. If we form a group together we'd be pretty damn awful.

Sure, you go tell your raid leader that you won't upgrade your gear because you don't want to do PvP and see how long you have a raiding spot.

So nobody in your guild is going to PvP, but they will kick you (yes, you personally) for not getting a legendary that requires PvP?

[SherbertLand]

Is a Blizzard employee standing next to with a gun pointed at your head and saying "WIN 10 BG'S RIGHT MEOW OR I'LL SPLATTER YOUR BRAINS ALL OVER YOUR MONITOR." Nope, didn't think so. You're not being forced to do anything.

You don't know whose inside my house

[IxilaFA]

Is a Blizzard employee standing next to with a gun pointed at your head and saying "WIN 10 BG'S RIGHT MEOW OR I'LL SPLATTER YOUR BRAINS ALL OVER YOUR MONITOR." Nope, didn't think so. You're not being forced to do anything.

This is the same point you guys have been spewing for the last 7 pages and it still is majorly flawed.

When people started complaining about the daily grind, or the LFR grind, I agreed that it wasn't being forced at that point. LFR loot is pretty crappy compared to actual upgrades in Normal raids, and you could easily complete MSV in dungeon blues and go from there. Same thing with Valor gear. Those two systems are used to supplement gear holes for raiders, and to help people who don't raid get some sense of progression with their character.

But the Legendary quest is not an option. For any guild. Ever. Even the most casual, we-raid-6-hours-a-week-and-only-do-normal-mode guilds would want you to get the Legendary. This is because Legendaries are the single best items in the game, and most Legendaries tend to last the rest of the expac. Our raiding guild went from having "passable" DPS to having amazing DPS when our Rogue, Warlock and Shadow Priest all got their Legendaries during Cataclysm. We went from struggling to beat enrage timers to beating them with a minute to spare. There is no denying that Legendaries are a marked improvement over any gear you will ever get in that slot for the remainder of the tier.

So yes, we are forced to get it if we want to be competitive. Hell, even ignoring the people who are in raiding guilds, how would any potential applicant look if he said that he wasn't willing to get the Legendary because he doesn't want to PvP? These PvP quests could stand as a serious roadblock in the way of any PvE player who is serious about raiding.

So nobody in your guild is going to PvP, but they will kick you (yes, you personally) for not getting a legendary that requires PvP?

That's not what I said at all. We all suck at PvP, but we all do what it takes to improve our characters. Every single one of us completes LFR each week and does our required amount of Dailies needed for rep / tokens. But we never group up for any of them because there are rarely more than 3 or 4 of us online at the same time outside of raiding, and most of us have lives outside of WoW so we all have very different play times. Sure I could log on and ask the 3 people online if they wanted to do some PvP, but odds are one is probably playing the AH and the other is probably in LFR at the time.

Hell it even gets to the point where we have designated people for each profession and you just send them the mats and a letter telling them what you need and recognize that you'll get it when you get it. That's how hard it is for any two raid members to be online at the same time outside of raid hours.

EDIT: Also they would never kick me. I don't believe I ever said they would kick me, and if I did it was a mistake. I would be constantly asked why I didn't get the Legendary, lectured over and over again, and if I still showed no signs of improving my character I would lose my raiding spot.

[Deleted]

Oh please, I've had to raid for a trinket just about every season as a PvPer, and that takes much longer than 10 BG wins considering the chance of looting.

[thunderdragon2]

PvE people whining about 10 battleground wins makes me sad We had to wear pve gear in arena to be competitive since TBC and you complain about 10 battlegrounds.

worst par is that those 10 bg will be full of bots

[dercaderca]

This is the same point you guys have been spewing for the last 7 pages and it still is majorly flawed.

When people started complaining about the daily grind, or the LFR grind, I agreed that it wasn't being forced at that point. LFR loot is pretty crappy compared to actual upgrades in Normal raids, and you could easily complete MSV in dungeon blues and go from there. Same thing with Valor gear. Those two systems are used to supplement gear holes for raiders, and to help people who don't raid get some sense of progression with their character.

But the Legendary quest is not an option. For any guild. Ever. Even the most casual, we-raid-6-hours-a-week-and-only-do-normal-mode guilds would want you to get the Legendary. This is because Legendaries are the single best items in the game, and most Legendaries tend to last the rest of the expac. Our raiding guild went from having "passable" DPS to having amazing DPS when our Rogue, Warlock and Shadow Priest all got their Legendaries during Cataclysm. We went from struggling to beat enrage timers to beating them with a minute to spare. There is no denying that Legendaries are a marked improvement over any gear you will ever get in that slot for the remainder of the tier.

So yes, we are forced to get it if we want to be competitive. Hell, even ignoring the people who are in raiding guilds, how would any potential applicant look if he said that he wasn't willing to get the Legendary because he doesn't want to PvP? These PvP quests could stand as a serious roadblock in the way of any PvE player who is serious about raiding.


That's not what I said at all. We all suck at PvP, but we all do what it takes to improve our characters. Every single one of us completes LFR each week and does our required amount of Dailies needed for rep / tokens. But we never group up for any of them because there are rarely more than 3 or 4 of us online at the same time outside of raiding, and most of us have lives outside of WoW so we all have very different play times. Sure I could log on and ask the 3 people online if they wanted to do some PvP, but odds are one is probably playing the AH and the other is probably in LFR at the time.

Hell it even gets to the point where we have designated people for each profession and you just send them the mats and a letter telling them what you need and recognize that you'll get it when you get it. That's how hard it is for any two raid members to be online at the same time outside of raid hours.

EDIT: Also they would never kick me. I don't believe I ever said they would kick me, and if I did it was a mistake. I would be constantly asked why I didn't get the Legendary, lectured over and over again, and if I still showed no signs of improving my character I would lose my raiding spot.

It's 10 BG's. Not 100, not 500, but 10. 10! If you actually try it will take 3 hours maybe.

I guess you just gotta ask yourself if winning 10 BG's is worth a legendary. I'd guess that to the vast majority it is.

It's not like they're asking you to get Glad or 2200 or something. It's 10 freakin BG's.


And it's about time it went the other way around, PVPers have been stuck farming trinkets and weapons IN RAIDS since the beginning of time.

[Immitis]

I have two characters, a pve rogue and a pvp hunter.

Needless to say pvping on a rogue is ridiculously stupid, while hunters are mostly bottom of the barrel on dps. So now to get my rogue's legendary questline continued I have to do pvp while wearing crap blue pvp gear and my pvp geared hunter who doesn't care about sha gems has nothing to benefit from the new faction.

Oh boy such good game design! At the very least they should've informed us of this before MoP

i see you missed the part where you could kill npcs OR players...

[glowzone]

10 bg's?
You're complaining about THAT?!

Legendaries, tss, how the mighty have fallen.

[stumpy]

That's not what I said at all. We all suck at PvP, but we all do what it takes to improve our characters. Every single one of us completes LFR each week and does our required amount of Dailies needed for rep / tokens. But we never group up for any of them because there are rarely more than 3 or 4 of us online at the same time outside of raiding, and most of us have lives outside of WoW so we all have very different play times. Sure I could log on and ask the 3 people online if they wanted to do some PvP, but odds are one is probably playing the AH and the other is probably in LFR at the time.

Hell it even gets to the point where we have designated people for each profession and you just send them the mats and a letter telling them what you need and recognize that you'll get it when you get it. That's how hard it is for any two raid members to be online at the same time outside of raid hours.

EDIT: Also they would never kick me. I don't believe I ever said they would kick me, and if I did it was a mistake. I would be constantly asked why I didn't get the Legendary, lectured over and over again, and if I still showed no signs of improving my character I would lose my raiding spot.

Sounds like getting the legendary is going to be a common issue in the guild, you're not going to be alone, and your leadership will have to either develop more realistic expectations or come up with an organized way to deal with it.