1. #1

    Wind Lord 10 Man Suggestions Welcome

    Ok, so I read all the posts I could find before our first night of attempts and we did make progress but I do have questions to maximize our next night. Here is our comp:

    Blood Dk single tanking
    feral druid
    rogue
    aff lock
    spriest
    hunter
    fire mage
    resto shammy
    resto shammy (will he a holy pally tomorrow night)
    mistweaver

    We are ccing 2 trappers, both melee interrupt the two menders, aoe the world, killing menders first but there is quite a gap after menders until trappers and blademasters, they are dying at similar times.We seem to lack the aoe to burn all 6 equally.

    When adds die, boss is at 80%, we then push him to 75% and start the wind bomb dance. We need to work on positioning to get the bombs using the whole room, pulling boss to middle to start seemed dumb.

    Questions:

    1. Class by class do you see improvements we can make? I have a boomkin available, am using spriest for mass dispels. We definitely need more dps. I am the blood tank and need to use DnD more and just get higher dps. Am calling out the fight and its slowing me. What about the rest? need specific suggestion, not replace so-so please

    2. What is best way to handle wind bombs

    3. Quickening also seems to be an issue as we only have 4 dispellers, 2 being healers. Do I have the mage tab target through and spellsteal em all every so often? There are points where the tank gets wrecked if they aren't dispelled, mass dispel is on 15 sec cd.

    Logs are here but most of the pulls were ugly, only two decent attempts, one was with hunter dead before phase II:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/996voxtv3uo4rdkn/

    Useful construction criticism appreciated. We are like a 7000th ranked world guild. 3 nights a week, get er done stuff. We beat garalon last night with 3 secs on enrage. Not world beaters, so need useful feedback

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Vashi's Avatar
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    Hmm only suggest I can make here is two heal it. So you dont have space problems to dance with traps due to low dmg in last phase.

    Also make sure everyone is watching the boss which way he will throw his blade, it does damage also when its getting back. Use cooldowns for rain of blades in last phase.
    Last edited by Vashi; 2012-11-27 at 07:57 AM.

  3. #3
    After my kill on Sunday I can say that is easier to cc only 3 mobs instead of 4. It puts a bit of extra pressure on healers but makes it a lot easier berserk-wise. Also we are using 2 priest (disco & shadow) that rotate mass dispel and resto shaman that helps if necessary.

  4. #4
    Not sure two healing is an option due to tank dmg while single tanking, would have to two tank it then which seems to balance it out.

    I am confused on why ccing 3 mobs instead of 4 is better. Is that so they take more damage? But its a shared health poll... ya I guess on true aoe it would reduce them, may try it, but that second trapper seems like it slows dps with people getting trapped and having to free them.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Vashi's Avatar
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    We are two healing / one tanking since first kill on this boss and was no problem at all. I almost one healed last week since other healer was dead since p1.

  6. #6
    vashi ur 4/6 HC, 1/6 HC suggesting your groups skills somewhat surpass our 6/6, 3/6 normal group We will try different combos this week, since raid locks reset and we have to start over in HoF and we all hate garalon and tornadoes I took us off to heroic Feng instead, perhaps some 509 gear will help.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    Your Warlock is doing it wrong. Have him watch THIS

    Evrelia is a great lock, and while the video is for heroic and 25 man the same rotation he uses for the AoE phase works on Normal 10 man. Your lock won't be pulling 400k because there is no burn phase when a group of adds die, but it is still a very effective way as a lock to dps.

    His three biggest problems. 1) Low uptime on Corruption, which means less Soul Shards which means less 2) SoulBurn; Soul Swapping, using this whenever he doesn't he doesn't need to SoulBurn: Seed of Courruption 3) Seed of Corruption when he has no shards.

    As far as your other questions go:

    If You can't do your rotation and call out the fight then delegate someone who can. Its your responsibility as a raid leader to know your short comings and work with them not against them.

    We dealt with windbombs just like any other persistent void zone. Lined the sides of the room with them and slowly made our way to the balcony.



    Make sure that when a windbomb drops you are not just running far away from it. Get out of the area for sure, but then position yourself so if you get bombed again you will over lap the new bomb with the old.

    The healing is fairly predictable so healers dispelling shouldn't be to large of an issue. Our Disc priest had 37 dispels last night.

    1 tank 3 heals and 3 CC's(one of each) worked great for us. We burning the amber trappers first as the traps were annoying the hell out of us. Elite Blademasters next and the battle healers go down pretty close together. Just make sure if you have the menders up last, someone interrupts the one who just broke out of CC, and if its the blade masters, whoever gets targeted should pop a CD or two.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slak View Post
    -Snip-
    Issues I see from logs (Best Attempt).
    1) Raid comp isn't ideal your beast attempts resulted in most deaths from Rain of Blades. Need a solid CD rotation.
    2) 2nd Shammy used Elemental Mastery exactly zero times.
    3) Mage only used Combustion 4x over the course of 7:42 (possible 10 uses). Big DPS loss.
    4) only 3/10 used a Healthstone even though 6/10 died to Rain of Blades.

    We three healed it but our total DPS came out to > 1 mil where you were only 655k-708k so seems like 2 healing might help but on the flip side Rain of Blades is an issue which requires healing/healing CD rotations. Getting close to 8 min the room has to be filled with Wind Bomb's making it likely someone will detonate one.

    DK seems in line at least for damage if you would have downed him he would be about 206 in rankings currently. Just really looked at logs already some good suggestions on how to adjust the fight.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  9. #9
    Your Feral needs to learn to play better. He has 40% uptime on Savage Roar (18% damage loss!!!!!!!).

    Also for some reason your druid is using River's Song enchant? Even as a Guardian, Dancing Steel is better.

    I prefer Dream of Cenarius on this fight as it allows for much better sustained AoE as there is no real burst phase on normal mode (DoC still has very good 'burst' anyway). However, pre-75%, it's all about control. When you CC a trapper, you can theoretically go the full 8 minutes without any worry of traps. Unless you're getting wrecked by enrage, you don't need to class stack at all.

    Our parse is here if your druid wanted to compare: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8184&e=8567 (I'm Imnestea)



    Our strat is that once one pack of adds die, we start cleaving off the boss, as the other adds are at like 50%ish and the boss is at like 92%. When this happens the boss is close to 75% and the adds die, and we have a shorter wind bomb phase.

    For Quickening, tell your spriest to mass dispel. If there's another quickening, just tell your spriest to communicate it, dispel Quickening off the boss and tell your DK to pop a cooldown.


    edit: Additionally, a lot of people are getting hit twice by Whirling Blade. Don't get hit twice by Whirling Blade.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Vashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slak View Post
    vashi ur 4/6 HC, 1/6 HC suggesting your groups skills somewhat surpass our 6/6, 3/6 normal group We will try different combos this week, since raid locks reset and we have to start over in HoF and we all hate garalon and tornadoes I took us off to heroic Feng instead, perhaps some 509 gear will help.
    It is not about skill after all. It is normals. So normal players should be able to do the raid setup as many others. And if you killed garalon your healers should have no problem two healing ( one tanking ) this fight.

  11. #11
    Just picking your longest try, the mage isn't doing too bad but could improve a few things.

    1) Isn't using Flame strike on the bunch at all. You'll get a decent damage boost using it on cooldown during P1 as it hits a minimum of 4.
    2) His Invokers Energy uptime is atrocious. 51%. This is the +25% spell power buff he gets after completing a channel of Invocation. The buff lasts 40 seconds and should be renewed as soon as possible. Theoretically I think it should have around 88% uptime to be perfect but it depends on fight length and how much he has to move, when he gets debuffed etc.. (my last kill was 84%). 51% just means he isn't tracking it properly.
    3) No potion use. I assume this applies raid wide?
    4) He took PoM, I'd say this fight favours Scorch a lot more. With the amber trappers debuff movement, moving to free prisons, moving from wind bombs and in and out for Blades in P2, there is a lot of movement here. He could be scorching that entire time he's moving but without it's just dead time, and scorches can proc Heating Up so extra pyros too.
    5) Combustion usage could be better. I see he used it 4 times when he had time to use it 6, or 5 if you factor in a bit of delay for Pyro procs.


    As I say though he's not doing too bad. The Feral is doing pretty badly. Someone already mentioned he's making the cardinal sin of not keeping SR up. You can even glyph it to cast at 0 CP if he's struggling. On your longest pull he has a 39% uptime which is incredibly bad, he needs to get this up to high 90s. He'll gain huge amounts of damage just keeping that up and doing his AoE rotation through the whole of Phase 1. DoC is going to be way better here due to buffing all your Thrashes in P1 I'd say, but if he's struggling to even keep SR up 100%, I'd say he's probably safer just sticking to NV.

    Just fixing SR uptime he shouldn't have much problem adding another 15-20k damage done there.

    For the wind bombs we start in the centre, ranged stay as far out as possible and drop bombs in a triple cluster (so one is dropped, they then stand on the very edge of that for the next one, then for the 3rd stand in inside bit where the two meet, so as to conserve the most floor space). The ranged will be moving closer to the centre and the boss, once it gets too crowded we simply move him to the door to Amber Shaper for the final few %.

    One of your healers didn't hit the boss either. It's not much but it can add up if you're hitting enrage. Our last kill we had 14 million healer damage compared to your 7 million with one of the shaman never attacking. They should get a lot of downtime in P2.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by smegdawg View Post
    Your Warlock is doing it wrong. Have him watch THIS

    Evrelia is a great lock, and while the video is for heroic and 25 man the same rotation he uses for the AoE phase works on Normal 10 man. Your lock won't be pulling 400k because there is no burn phase when a group of adds die, but it is still a very effective way as a lock to dps.

    His three biggest problems. 1) Low uptime on Corruption, which means less Soul Shards which means less 2) SoulBurn; Soul Swapping, using this whenever he doesn't he doesn't need to SoulBurn: Seed of Courruption 3) Seed of Corruption when he has no shards.

    As far as your other questions go:

    If You can't do your rotation and call out the fight then delegate someone who can. Its your responsibility as a raid leader to know your short comings and work with them not against them.

    We dealt with windbombs just like any other persistent void zone. Lined the sides of the room with them and slowly made our way to the balcony.



    Make sure that when a windbomb drops you are not just running far away from it. Get out of the area for sure, but then position yourself so if you get bombed again you will over lap the new bomb with the old.

    The healing is fairly predictable so healers dispelling shouldn't be to large of an issue. Our Disc priest had 37 dispels last night.

    1 tank 3 heals and 3 CC's(one of each) worked great for us. We burning the amber trappers first as the traps were annoying the hell out of us. Elite Blademasters next and the battle healers go down pretty close together. Just make sure if you have the menders up last, someone interrupts the one who just broke out of CC, and if its the blade masters, whoever gets targeted should pop a CD or two.
    That blueprint is displaying how you posiition for p2 correct? If so, would that be applicable for a 25m given the fact that there are more ppl clumped up?

  13. #13
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    Yeah phase 2, not sure if that it would work for 25 man.

    Just seems like you would have to many people on each side.

    Maybe instead of having 2 groups of ranged/healeres you have 4. Put the boss in the middle of the room and have 2 groups move toward the door and have the two groups move toward the balcony.

    Not entirely sure if that would work though as I haven't bothered with 25 man mechanics.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Slak View Post
    Ok, so I read all the posts I could find before our first night of attempts and we did make progress but I do have questions to maximize our next night. Here is our comp:

    Blood Dk single tanking
    feral druid
    rogue
    aff lock
    spriest
    hunter
    fire mage
    resto shammy
    resto shammy (will he a holy pally tomorrow night)
    mistweaver

    We are ccing 2 trappers, both melee interrupt the two menders, aoe the world, killing menders first but there is quite a gap after menders until trappers and blademasters, they are dying at similar times.We seem to lack the aoe to burn all 6 equally.

    When adds die, boss is at 80%, we then push him to 75% and start the wind bomb dance. We need to work on positioning to get the bombs using the whole room, pulling boss to middle to start seemed dumb.

    Questions:

    1. Class by class do you see improvements we can make? I have a boomkin available, am using spriest for mass dispels. We definitely need more dps. I am the blood tank and need to use DnD more and just get higher dps. Am calling out the fight and its slowing me. What about the rest? need specific suggestion, not replace so-so please

    2. What is best way to handle wind bombs

    3. Quickening also seems to be an issue as we only have 4 dispellers, 2 being healers. Do I have the mage tab target through and spellsteal em all every so often? There are points where the tank gets wrecked if they aren't dispelled, mass dispel is on 15 sec cd.

    Logs are here but most of the pulls were ugly, only two decent attempts, one was with hunter dead before phase II:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/996voxtv3uo4rdkn/

    Useful construction criticism appreciated. We are like a 7000th ranked world guild. 3 nights a week, get er done stuff. We beat garalon last night with 3 secs on enrage. Not world beaters, so need useful feedback
    I see you're three healing it. We two-healed it, and though sometimes there are pulls where the tank gets demolished without much warning, we found it works much better. Three is just not enough dps for us.
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  15. #15
    My guild 2 tanks 2 heals we can 1 tank it but we use 2 tanks to minimize damage during last phase we arc the wind bombs around boss. I will post a vid of our kill. We cc 1 mender 1 blade 1 trapper. We kill mender first and blade and trapper die withing 2 secs of each other. Our comp is really bad for add phase but makes up for the last phase.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Issues I see from logs (Best Attempt).
    1) Raid comp isn't ideal your beast attempts resulted in most deaths from Rain of Blades. Need a solid CD rotation.
    2) 2nd Shammy used Elemental Mastery exactly zero times.
    3) Mage only used Combustion 4x over the course of 7:42 (possible 10 uses). Big DPS loss.
    4) only 3/10 used a Healthstone even though 6/10 died to Rain of Blades.

    We three healed it but our total DPS came out to > 1 mil where you were only 655k-708k so seems like 2 healing might help but on the flip side Rain of Blades is an issue which requires healing/healing CD rotations. Getting close to 8 min the room has to be filled with Wind Bomb's making it likely someone will detonate one.

    DK seems in line at least for damage if you would have downed him he would be about 206 in rankings currently. Just really looked at logs already some good suggestions on how to adjust the fight.
    One note to your 3) U glyph combustion for a 1,5 min cd, makes 4 /6 . Still bad, but
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