Holy Pally Weapon Enchant

[Sparden]

Should I get Jade Spirit on my weapon or should i wait until I get a better weapon. Also, what piece of gear should I next with my valor points are should i wait to see after we clear 6/6 MV and 4/6 HoF.

Character name is Sparden. On the Realm Korgath. Won't let me post links yet.

[froxyyer]

As soon as I got the LFR 476 mace I went for Jade Spirit and I don't regret it for sure. It gave me a substential boost on healing and mana regen

[Skulldancer]

Should I get Jade Spirit on my weapon or should i wait until I get a better weapon. Also, what piece of gear should I next with my valor points are should i wait to see after we clear 6/6 MV and 4/6 HoF.

Character name is Sparden. On the Realm Korgath. Won't let me post links yet.

i still run heartsong

[Deleted]

I've been running Jade Spirit during the whole time it has been available. If you cant afford it, go for Windsong

[ChrisKoe]

i still run heartsong

I advertised that enchant myself when Jade Spirit was unavailable and Windsong bugged for healers. But now heartsong is a really weak enchant. It equates to ~50 Spirit which is next to nothing. I haven't done the math, but I'm fairly sure the sub 25% mana proc from Jade Spirit is more regen over the course of a fight, not to mention the throughput JS offers.

[Ethes]

Should I get Jade Spirit on my weapon or should i wait until I get a better weapon. Also, what piece of gear should I next with my valor points are should i wait to see after we clear 6/6 MV and 4/6 HoF.

Character name is Sparden. On the Realm Korgath. Won't let me post links yet.

That depends on how rich you are and how fast you will replace this weapon. Also, if you're not going to use it in a raid you might as well wait. As dungeons, scenario's and whatnot are easy anyway!

[Theholypally]

If you don't plan on replacing the weapon soon and you are stupid rich then yeah, Jade Spirit. If not, Windsong since its cheap.

I'd get jade serpent as well but it costs a ton.

[Xs]

If its epic, Jade Spirit, if not Windsong

[Kerfax]

If you can easily afford it, Jade Spirit is much stronger than the other options.

[Skulldancer]

I advertised that enchant myself when Jade Spirit was unavailable and Windsong bugged for healers. But now heartsong is a really weak enchant. It equates to ~50 Spirit which is next to nothing. I haven't done the math, but I'm fairly sure the sub 25% mana proc from Jade Spirit is more regen over the course of a fight, not to mention the throughput JS offers.

it actually been mathematically proven that heartsong gives more spirit regen

[Deleted]

I love how everyone in this thread recomends Jade Spirit. If people had been bothered checking logs they would know that jade spirit procs aprox 12 times in a 10min fight which makes it 1ppm affected by haste. Windsong on the other hand will proc aprox 15 times x 3. The buffs from windsong does not share "cooldown" and because of that Windsong is by far the best enchant a holy paladin can choose. The Jade Spirit proc would have to be 4 times as good as a Windsong proc but reality is that its twice as good at best.

[Lucyrotten]

You're assuming that all three of the Windsong procs are equally good for us which isn't really true. The haste and crit are ok but the real value comes from the mastery proc which is showing 24.0% uptime or ~360 mastery while the Jade Spirit enchant with a 22.3% uptime yields ~368 intellect not including the bonus spirit proc at low mana levels. Those are real numbers pulled out of a log with me as the pally with Jade Spirit and another pally with Windsong.

More intellect also creates bigger mastery shields so the power isn't wasted and the shield strength is also increased for the duration of the buff. I'm not sure how you can say that Windsong is that much better than Jade Spirit given those numbers.

[Deleted]

You're assuming that all three of the Windsong procs are equally good for us which isn't really true. The haste and crit are ok but the real value comes from the mastery proc which is showing 24.0% uptime or ~360 mastery while the Jade Spirit enchant with a 22.3% uptime yields ~368 intellect not including the bonus spirit proc at low mana levels. Those are real numbers pulled out of a log with me as the pally with Jade Spirit and another pally with Windsong.

More intellect also creates bigger mastery shields so the power isn't wasted and the shield strength is also increased for the duration of the buff. I'm not sure how you can say that Windsong is that much better than Jade Spirit given those numbers.

Bonus spirit proc is really low.

Also, there is mathematical calculation about different stat values. There is straightforward computation that mastery is better than spell power per point. OKay that int proc in mainly spell power (and also some crit) but if you take into account crit and haste procs as well ( which are not that bad as you are saying if you look at the stat values ) you see pretty fast that windsong is better ( this is before buff to Jade Spirit PPM which comes in 5.1).

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...adin-Guide-5-0

[Deleted]

You're assuming that all three of the Windsong procs are equally good for us which isn't really true. The haste and crit are ok but the real value comes from the mastery proc which is showing 24.0% uptime or ~360 mastery while the Jade Spirit enchant with a 22.3% uptime yields ~368 intellect not including the bonus spirit proc at low mana levels. Those are real numbers pulled out of a log with me as the pally with Jade Spirit and another pally with Windsong.

More intellect also creates bigger mastery shields so the power isn't wasted and the shield strength is also increased for the duration of the buff. I'm not sure how you can say that Windsong is that much better than Jade Spirit given those numbers.

As I said 1 proc of Jade Spirit is (at best) TWICE as good as 1 proc of Windsong in terms of throughput. You will not find a single website that has the average of crit, haste and mastery below 0,5 int. Windsong will proc 4 times as frequent as Jade Spirit so a simple equation such as 0,5 x 4 = 2 clearly shows that Windsong is better. Another super important factor is that Windsong provides haste while Jade Spirit does not, haste is not a stat we should be reforging and because of that you will not get another tick of EF but with Windsong you will as long as you have 2006 haste.

[Lucyrotten]

As I said 1 proc of Jade Spirit is (at best) TWICE as good as 1 proc of Windsong in terms of throughput. You will not find a single website that has the average of crit, haste and mastery below 0,5 int. Windsong will proc 4 times as frequent as Jade Spirit so a simple equation such as 0,5 x 4 = 2 clearly shows that Windsong is better. Another super important factor is that Windsong provides haste while Jade Spirit does not, haste is not a stat we should be reforging and because of that you will not get another tick of EF but with Windsong you will as long as you have 2006 haste.

I'm not going to argue this point too much further since the PPM is getting fixed in 5.1 which is happening Soon™ but of the procs in the logs I quoted 18 were crit, 11 were mastery and 7 were haste. Since each proc is not created equal the .5x4 math is faulty and needs to be weighted based on the value of each stat. Each proc does not have a constant value and it's highly likely you won't get the stat you want when it's most useful.

[Skulldancer]

I love how everyone in this thread recomends Jade Spirit. If people had been bothered checking logs they would know that jade spirit procs aprox 12 times in a 10min fight which makes it 1ppm affected by haste. Windsong on the other hand will proc aprox 15 times x 3. The buffs from windsong does not share "cooldown" and because of that Windsong is by far the best enchant a holy paladin can choose. The Jade Spirit proc would have to be 4 times as good as a Windsong proc but reality is that its twice as good at best.

compare the heartsong proc per 10 minute fight. it trumps the regen of Jade Spirit.

[Deleted]

I'm not going to argue this point too much further since the PPM is getting fixed in 5.1 which is happening Soon™ but of the procs in the logs I quoted 18 were crit, 11 were mastery and 7 were haste. Since each proc is not created equal the .5x4 math is faulty and needs to be weighted based on the value of each stat. Each proc does not have a constant value and it's highly likely you won't get the stat you want when it's most useful.

Yes PPM is getting fixed but even after that some math has to be done. Many players value int a bit too high (I'm not saying it's bad but not like 1 int = 2 mastery or anything). I'm not saying Jade spirit will be worse after the buff, it just has to be computed.

Also to your comment about proc the int proc from Jade Spirit is also sometimes wasted if you get it when the damage is low. And don't tell me you're spamming to get higher mastery bubble with higher int value in the time of proc because that just doesn't work.

But this is the same argument as that was in Cata that is Heartsong or Power Torrent better. After the buff I think it's mostly personal preference but for now Windsong is clearly better. I've never liked any int procs as a healer because it makes you concentrate on things you shouldn't and usually procs happen when I don't want them to happen.

[Lucyrotten]

Doc, you quoted a thread that recommends Jade Spirit and Kerfax posted in this thread that Jade Spirit is ahead. I'm not uncomfortable with it right now. If I get a new weapon soonish I may throw windsong on to see if there's an appreciable difference but I don't feel the need to scrap the one I have.

[Deleted]

Doc, you quoted a thread that recommends Jade Spirit and Kerfax posted in this thread that Jade Spirit is ahead. I'm not uncomfortable with it right now. If I get a new weapon soonish I may throw windsong on to see if there's an appreciable difference but I don't feel the need to scrap the one I have.

Yes, sorry for the confusion. I was only referring to stat values of that post. With those stat values and Jade Spirit's proc rate I just cannot see why it is better or "Much Stronger". This is not about gold. I just want to know which is better.

[Skulldancer]

Yes, sorry for the confusion. I was only referring to stat values of that post. With those stat values and Jade Spirit's proc rate I just cannot see why it is better or "Much Stronger". This is not about gold. I just want to know which is better.

Yeah they're is alot of opinions and not enough math and fact here. Through put even Windsong beats jade spirit. Regen Easily Heartsong. I think Blizzard dropped the ball on the enchant situation and I might see a nerf in windsong tobh