1. #2001
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    With that said, back on topic I hope this guy stays in jail for the rest of his life. I don't see any way to justify what he did. Two teenagers do not deserve to die for attempting to steal who knows what. I don't care if it was $10, $50, or even $10,000 worth of stuff. Two lives > $10,000 worth of items. Two lives > $1,000,000 worth of items. Fucking hell, people.
    Screw the money - My lifes on the bet. How would I know these aren't some murderes breaking in my house equipped with weapons? I wouldn't take the chances, oh just some teenager that broke into my house at age 65 myself and think - It's fine, I'll yell at them a bit and lead them to the door. That's not what would've happend. If the old man wouldn't have picked up a weapon to scare them, those two would most likely have hurt him, push'd him or something. Self defense is self defense. Even if it is against teenagers. Not saying that the man did the right choices, but it's hard to make those choices right as the scenario would depend on those happenings.

    Do you think the teens would've run out of the house if he didn't show up with a gun shoting them? Would they push him, hit him? Would they maybe even kill him? Where they influenced by alcohol? Drugs? What? Did the teenager have weapons? What are they breaking into his house for? There's so many possiblites - Regardless of them, you're ending up making a mistake. Let's say we come to the possiblity - He goes without a weapon and confronts them, they're influenced with drugs and alkohol and try to somehow attack him. Scenario would be - teenager broke into a seniors house and killed him - Now then you would say - He should've taken proper mesurements. Confront them with weapons etc, call the police w/e.

    We're talking about lifes. Always sad to that lifes go away but don't take one part of the case. It's not about the money, it's about the lifes. We don't know what would've happend if he wouldn't have confronted them with a gun. Some things can't be taken by chances. Even having the gun pointed at them. How could a man at age 60-70 think that they didn't have any guns, or knives? He at that age is slow and could've been surprised easily.

  2. #2002
    Scarab Lord Atrea's Avatar
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    The report is based on this one person's testimony, and is not based on any forensic evidence.

    His testimony is full of holes and does not add up, and anyone who has read/heard it would draw the same conclusion.

  3. #2003
    Banned vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Same as a lot of others feel I'm ok with him shooting them it's the execution of each that took it too far. He almost seems like he is bragging about a clean killing blow which to me means he took pleasure in it and that's too far and he should be sent to prison as far as I am concerned.

  4. #2004
    I'm an immigrant from Nigeria. I live in New England and most people have guns here but no crime. It's nice

  5. #2005
    Taking this story at face value: Two murder charges. Somebody who you've already shot once and falls down a flight of stairs isn't going to be a threat. Executing somebody you've already shot several times because they laughed at your gun jamming is also reprehensible.

    Analyzing the story: Something seems fishy. Gunshots are fucking loud, why would the girl come down the stairs after hearing the gunshot?
    Quote Originally Posted by kjcasey View Post
    not saying what he did after he stopped them was right. But lets face it if they were at home watching tv instead of invading a mans home they would still be alive
    If they also had bullet proof gear and military training they'd still be alive. If the man didn't execute they might still be alive.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  6. #2006
    I am going by the police statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    Just what evidence is that? The testimony of one person?
    It's very suspicious and doesn't add up. Shouldn't you reserve judgement of these two individuals until all the facts are known?

  7. #2007
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed Shut View Post
    Glad to know you read/listen to the liberal press.
    Oh you're a liberal bashing conservative? Well that's just lovely.

  8. #2008
    The Lightbringer aikoyamamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjcasey View Post
    Would you say that had they killed him for a few personal things? Because in most home invasions the home owner dies! People are getting smarter they are sick and tired of criminals.
    Oh? And do you have a source for statement?
    Obviously I would be singing a different tune if the situation was entirely different. But it wasn't. None of the information we have available (or that I have read anyway) has any mention of the teens carrying a weapon. This was excessive force, plain and simple. The whole "shoot first, ask later" mentality is asinine. We should be allowed to kill someone because he or she might maybe possibly feasibly have a weapon that we don't know of? If he truly feared for his life he should have confronted them. He had the upper hand already. He had the weapon. The element of surprise. But he couldn't be bothered to take the seconds it would have taken to assess the situation properly? He shot him the moment he came into view, then proceeded to EXECUTE him after tumbled down the stairs. Tell me, sir. At what point was he a threat?
    Last edited by aikoyamamato; 2012-11-27 at 08:36 PM.

  9. #2009
    Going to call natural selection on this one, the kids should have been faster or smarter, and the man was past his prime. Nothing was lost and maybe the parents will be better about raising children, or just not do it again.

  10. #2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    Taking this story at face value: Two murder charges. Somebody who you've already shot once and falls down a flight of stairs isn't going to be a threat. Executing somebody you've already shot several times because they laughed at your gun jamming is also reprehensible.

    Analyzing the story: Something seems fishy. Gunshots are fucking loud, why would the girl come down the stairs after hearing the gunshot?
    Going by the story, and yes it seems to me that something isn't quite right there as well, I could see the girl coming to find out what happened after hearing it from another part of the house. It wasn't exactly a big gun, and if there were enough thick walls in between she may not have clicked that it was a rifle (although unlikely). I think the more likely reason was that she wasn't particularly bright, or that she was distressed about the possibility of him being harmed and rushing to help him.

    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

  11. #2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    old man who people didn't really like and was suspicious off kills two teens in cold blood after they were incapacitated. He's a mental case that needs to be locked away in a centre.
    There are people who do not like me and im sure there are some who think im suspicious too for who knows what, doesn't mean Im a mental case when an unusual situation presents itself. I personally do not know how I would act after I shot them, because I for sure would have shot them first to protect my family. You do not always know what you will do in certain situations when its not something you've prepared for or possibly risk death.

    Morrison County sheriff's office has for a break-in at the home was for one on Oct. 27. It shows Byron Smith reported losing cash and gold coins worth $9,200, plus two guns worth $200 each, photo equipment worth more than $3,000 and a ring worth $300.
    Did you miss this part of the article? He had guns stolen. How was he to know that the people who had stolen his guns weren't back again?

    The whole debate, well for the most part, is not the initial shooting but the "execution" of them afterwards. Do you think he had any right to shoot the invaders in the first place?

  12. #2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Screw the money - My lifes on the bet. How would I know these aren't some murderes breaking in my house equipped with weapons? I wouldn't take the chances, oh just some teenager that broke into my house at age 65 myself and think - It's fine, I'll yell at them a bit and lead them to the door. That's not what would've happend. If the old man wouldn't have picked up a weapon to scare them, those two would most likely have hurt him, push'd him or something. Self defense is self defense. Even if it is against teenagers. Not saying that the man did the right choices, but it's hard to make those choices right as the scenario would depend on those happenings.

    Do you think the teens would've run out of the house if he didn't show up with a gun shoting them? Would they push him, hit him? Would they maybe even kill him? Where they influenced by alcohol? Drugs? What? Did the teenager have weapons? What are they breaking into his house for? There's so many possiblites - Regardless of them, you're ending up making a mistake. Let's say we come to the possiblity - He goes without a weapon and confronts them, they're influenced with drugs and alkohol and try to somehow attack him. Scenario would be - teenager broke into a seniors house and killed him - Now then you would say - He should've taken proper mesurements. Confront them with weapons etc, call the police w/e.

    We're talking about lifes. Always sad to that lifes go away but don't take one part of the case. It's not about the money, it's about the lifes. We don't know what would've happend if he wouldn't have confronted them with a gun. Some things can't be taken by chances. Even having the gun pointed at them. How could a man at age 60-70 think that they didn't have any guns, or knives? He at that age is slow and could've been surprised easily.
    If he had shot them and killed them without any intermediate event where they were incapacitated then it would be fine. But in this case, he shot a guy in the face after he had just fallen down a flight of stairs after being shot, then waited around for the girl to approach and did something similar with her.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  13. #2013
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    Like many have said, they deserved to be shot.

    The execution was too lenient. I wouldn't have shot them point blank in the face, I would let them bleed out for a while before calling authorities. He did them a favor by executing them, had it been me, they would be screaming and crying while I watched them bleed. They got what they deserved.

    We need more natural selection in this world. Humans are disgusting creatures that have little intrinsic value in my opinion. We don't live in harmony with the planet, we are parasites. Good riddance I say.
    Last edited by Orangetai420; 2012-11-27 at 08:49 PM.
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  14. #2014
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    Oh? And do you have a source for statement?
    Obviously I would be singing a different tune if the situation was entirely different. But it wasn't. None of the information we have available (or that I have read anyway) has any mention of the teens carrying a weapon. This was excessive force, plain and simple. The whole "shoot first, ask later" mentality is asinine. We should be allowed to kill someone because he or she might maybe possibly feasibly have a weapon that we don't know of? If he truly feared for his life he should have confronted them. He had the upper hand already. He had the weapon. The element of surprise. But he couldn't be bothered to take the seconds it would have taken to assess the situation properly? He shot him the moment he came into view, then proceeded to EXECUTE him after tumbled down the stairs. Tell me, sir. At what point was he a threat?
    Not true. Plently of elderly jump to conclusions and fear things that are not either really there or happening. Who knows what story got made up in his head and already people on this forum are calling him mental.

    For all we know, he truely believe they were there to take all he has and kill him.

    We should be reserving judgement like this quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    Just what evidence is that? The testimony of one person?
    It's very suspicious and doesn't add up. Shouldn't you reserve judgement of these two individuals until all the facts are known?
    However, since neither side seems to actually be doing that (including you and me) it's not likely to happen.

  15. #2015
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed Shut View Post
    Glad to hear you are willing to go that extra mile. Most of us husbands/fathers would die to protect their family. My question to you is, how do you know the intent of the person invading your house and are you willing to risk your family to find out before taking action?
    You don't and it should hardly be expected that you should put your life at risk to find out.

  16. #2016
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    If he had shot them and killed them without any intermediate event where they were incapacitated then it would be fine. But in this case, he shot a guy in the face after he had just fallen down a flight of stairs after being shot, then waited around for the girl to approach and did something similar with her.
    he waited for the girl or he heard more footsteps and realized there was another person? This came up earlier as the old man was a "waiting assassin" in his basement but the articles I read said nothing about hearing 2 people or knowing there was another person until she made noise with footsteps. If this were me, and I had shot one, I would think that a gun shot would have scared the first one away. But to have another person come to the place where gun shots were i'd think they were armed and coming to return fire.

  17. #2017
    The man's sister had accused one of the teens of robbing her previously.

    This guy had decided that the proper punishment for these teens was execution before they ever made their way into his basement. The question is did they break in to his house and walk down the stairs one at a time so he could kill them, or did he do something to get them there.

    Self defense is doing what you need to do to defend yourself. Executing someone is something that a murderer does. If these kids did in fact break into a murderer's house that still doesn't make their murders justifiable. If your kid steals an ID to get into a club and meets up with a rapist, that doesn't mean they deserve to be.. you know... . If your brother steals something from a store, that doesn't mean they can take him out back and shoot him. These kids put themselves in a bad spot (if they actually did it), but that doesn't mean that they deserved to die for it.

  18. #2018
    Shoot first ask questions later is the only way to go in a home invasion period I will not risk my life nor my families to ask questions if someone invades my home. that being said people should think twice before entering a mans home! And I am going by the police statement made on their tv press release
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    Oh? And do you have a source for statement?
    Obviously I would be singing a different tune if the situation was entirely different. But it wasn't. None of the information we have available (or that I have read anyway) has any mention of the teens carrying a weapon. This was excessive force, plain and simple. The whole "shoot first, ask later" mentality is asinine. We should be allowed to kill someone because he or she might maybe possibly feasibly have a weapon that we don't know of? If he truly feared for his life he should have confronted them. He had the upper hand already. He had the weapon. The element of surprise. But he couldn't be bothered to take the seconds it would have taken to assess the situation properly? He shot him the moment he came into view, then proceeded to EXECUTE him after tumbled down the stairs. Tell me, sir. At what point was he a threat?

  19. #2019
    This is why you shouldn't put guns in every house

    and this is why you should actually watch your dumbass kids so they dont pull shit like this in the first place.

    2 wrongs:
    overreacting elder
    (cant blame him, a 64 years old vs 2 teens theres no chance)
    Kifer laughed when his gun jammed I think this is the scariest moment in that situation for him.

    and a SMART idea from 2 teenagers on thanksgiving.


    What people should learn : DO NOT invade other people's homes, "Shoot First, Ask Later" is the safest way to make sure you don't become a victim from the invaders.
    Last edited by Gamez; 2012-11-27 at 08:46 PM.

  20. #2020
    Quote Originally Posted by BlasphemousMusic View Post
    he waited for the girl or he heard more footsteps and realized there was another person? This came up earlier as the old man was a "waiting assassin" in his basement but the articles I read said nothing about hearing 2 people or knowing there was another person until she made noise with footsteps. If this were me, and I had shot one, I would think that a gun shot would have scared the first one away. But to have another person come to the place where gun shots were i'd think they were armed and coming to return fire.
    He still waited around to hear the footsteps. The point about waiting around isn't that he's some assassin, it's that he should have called the police right after he shot the first kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamez View Post
    This is why you shouldn't put guns in every house

    and this is why you should actually watch your dumbass kids so they dont pull shit like this in the first place.

    2 wrongs:
    overreacting elder
    (cant blame him, a 64 years old vs 2 teens theres no chance)
    Kifer laughed when his gun jammed I think this is the scariest moment in that situation for him.

    and a SMART idea from 2 teenagers on thanksgiving.
    Yeah, the whole laughing thing may not even have been due to his gun jamming and should have been in no way scary. You could tell by the way he said it that he was more angry that she was laughing. Anyway, back to the laughing, it could have been due to having been shot a few times and falling down the stairs. Some people laugh when they are in pain.
    Last edited by Bergtau; 2012-11-27 at 08:46 PM.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

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