Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[kjcasey]

i would go with aggravated manslaughter not murder.

Tough one to answer.

Kids were wrong to break in to a house and attempt to burglarize it.
He was right to be able to defend his home with shooting them.
He was wrong to excecute non-combatants.
He was wrong to not alert the police immediately.

It's not murder 1, that's for sure.
It's could go as murder 2.
It's at least aggravated manslaughter.

He already copped to it, so he'll be in prison for a while.

[-aiko-]

Shoot first ask questions later is the only way to go in a home invasion period I will not risk my life nor my families to ask questions if someone invades my home. that being said people should think twice before entering a mans home! And I am going by the police statement made on their tv press release

So, hypothetically, let's say you have a teenage son. He sneaks out of his room at night to go clubbing, dancing, whatever young folks do nowadays. He sneaks back in through a window he left slightly open. You hear the whole ordeal and, in your panic-driven state, you fear for the lives of your family. You sneak to a hallway next to the window, get your gun ready, and shoot as soon as your son comes into view. Good job, you just killed your son because you couldn't be bothered to spend a few fucking seconds to assess the situation properly. Is that a justified killing?

I understand that kind of a scenario is highly unlikely but I still think it illustrates my point. You have a gun in your hands, you have an element of surprise. The situation is under your control. When do you shoot? When you see a legitimate weapon in their hands, or when it's clear you're actually IN danger.

Also, what I was asking for was a source on the statement that "most home invasions the home owner dies". I find that like...I dunno, hard to believe maybe?

[kjcasey]

my kids know better and they have keys!!!!! And I would look at who I was shooting before I pulled the trigger!

So, hypothetically, let's say you have a teenage son. He sneaks out of his room at night to go clubbing, dancing, whatever young folks do nowadays. He sneaks back in through a window he left slightly open. You hear the whole ordeal and, in your panic-driven state, you fear for the lives of your family. You sneak to a hallway next to the window, get your gun ready, and shoot as soon as your son comes into view. Good job, you just killed your son because you couldn't be bothered to spend a few fucking seconds to assess the situation properly. Is that a justified killing?

I understand that kind of a scenario is highly unlikely but I still think it illustrates my point. You have a gun in your hands, you have an element of surprise. The situation is under your control. When do you shoot? When you see a legitimate weapon in their hands, or when it's clear you're actually IN danger.

Also, what I was asking for was a source on the statement that "most home invasions the home owner dies". I find that like...I dunno, hard to believe maybe?

[Fahrenheit]

So, hypothetically, let's say you have a teenage son. He sneaks out of his room at night to go clubbing, dancing, whatever young folks do nowadays. He sneaks back in through a window he left slightly open. You hear the whole ordeal and, in your panic-driven state, you fear for the lives of your family. You sneak to a hallway next to the window, get your gun ready, and shoot as soon as your son comes into view. Good job, you just killed your son because you couldn't be bothered to spend a few fucking seconds to assess the situation properly. Is that a justified killing?
I understand that kind of a scenario is highly unlikely but I still think it illustrates my point. You have a gun in your hands, you have an element of surprise. The situation is under your control. When do you shoot? When you see a legitimate weapon in their hands, or when it's clear you're actually IN danger.

Also, what I was asking for was a source on the statement that "most home invasions the home owner dies". I find that like...I dunno, hard to believe maybe?

Justified in a legal sense? Yes. The guy in that situation wouldn't do any time.

Though I've no doubt it'd fuck up his state of mind for likely the rest of his days.

[kjcasey]

one more thing they dont have to have a weapon to kill you!!

my kids know better and they have keys!!!!! And I would look at who I was shooting before I pulled the trigger!

[Explosions]

We live in a country were you can't just go around killing people that break into your homes. You can't just execute them. WHICH IS WHY HE'S FUCKING ARRESTED.

Let's get this straight people he is IN CUSTODY BECAUSE THEY FOUND HIM TO OVER REACT FOR FUCK SAKES.

UMADBRA? /tenchars

[-aiko-]

my kids know better and they have keys!!!!! And I would look at who I was shooting before I pulled the trigger!

And if it's dark? And your son wore dark clothes that night? His face is out of view? Don't mean to argue so much but can you see how shooting first can lead to a huge tragedy? That's what I feel happened to these teens. They weren't given a chance.

Edit:

one more thing they dont have to have a weapon to kill you!!

You have a gun, you have distance, you have the element of surprise. I can't see someone being able to kill you with their fists at that point.

[kjcasey]

In this country you can kill someone who invades your home!!!!! Most home invasions end with the homeowner dead

UMADBRA? /tenchars

[Dubalicious]

It's pathetic watching people try to condone what he's done. 1) we don't know that's how it happened because his story has holes 2) his story is fucked up off the bat 3) he never called the cops and didn't intend to.

I usually stay out of this topic, but I would like to present a viewpoint of one of my close friends.

"Why should we as humans/citizens of a "free" country have to rely on the police/authorities to protect us? Why should we not have the right to protect ourselves, our families, and our belongings from those who choose to commit crimes/violence against the innocent?"

Now obviously this is a really sad case, no debating that, but I have a hard time arguing that we should not be entitled to protect ourselves rather than having to rely on the police/authorities to do it for us. Don't we want to encourage keeping the peace and not violence/crimes towards the innocent?

[s_bushido]

EDIT: I find it rather hard to believe that a teen girl with two bullets in her started to laugh at him when his gun jammed. Dubious indeed...

Hysterical laughter, maybe?

But assuming things went down as that man described...seems to me that he won't be spending much time in the home he killed to protect. I'm of the mind that you can't just execute people. Especially people you've already potentially mortally wounded. To me, it shows that his intent was anything but self defense. Not to mention waiting to call the authorities.

[BurningSkies2018]

Him opening fire to defend his home. That's ok with me. The situation didn't give time for him to find out why they are on the property. If they were to die from his self-defense, then that's it even if it would've been unfortunate.

However, if he shot them and they can't fight anymore, that's where the shooting should end. If they were to continue fighting, this would be a different story.

He should've stopped. Self defense became murder here.

If they lived, the said man would have most likely been taken to court for some absolutely obscene charge. I agree though that it was probably too far, but at the same time if I knew someone was going to most likely die I'd do just like I would an animal and put them out of their misery. Waiting a whole day was not the best thing to do though.


The whole situation could have been averted had the thugs not been breaking and entering in the first place.

[-aiko-]

In this country you can kill someone who invades your home!!!!! Most home invasions end with the homeowner dead

Aaaand have you found a source for that yet? I'm willing to bet that most home invasions end with some items missing. Not a dead homeowner. :P

[kjcasey]

Yes I can see that but we as parents need to teach our kids the best we can and I have taught mine. I would hate for my child to invade a mans home and die for it. I would be grief stricken for years to come. I would also understand his right to protect

And if it's dark? And your son wore dark clothes that night? His face is out of view? Don't mean to argue so much but can you see how shooting first can lead to a huge tragedy? That's what I feel happened to these teens. They weren't given a chance.

Edit:

You have a gun, you have distance, you have the element of surprise. I can't see someone being able to kill you with their fists at that point.

[-aiko-]

Justified in a legal sense? Yes. The guy in that situation wouldn't do any time.

Though I've no doubt it'd fuck up his state of mind for likely the rest of his days.

Ah sorry I was referring less about legal justification and more about justifying the idea of shooting first. I understand the need to have a means to protect yourself, so I'm not technically against gun rights, but it's become a huge problem I think. We have a right to protect our household, not slaughter people in it.

[Dubalicious]

You have a gun in your hands, you have an element of surprise. The situation is under your control. When do you shoot? When you see a legitimate weapon in their hands, or when it's clear you're actually IN danger.

You do understand that there are non-police citizens and even children who have as much weapons training and experience as some police officers, right? And that the "bad guys" don't really use the caution and training that you are suggesting we need to not make fatal mistakes?

[kjcasey]

Just read home invasions where the homeowner kills is far and few. Home invasions where the family is killed are far more frequent

Aaaand have you found a source for that yet? I'm willing to bet that most home invasions end with some items missing. Not a dead homeowner. :P

[Themius]

This reminds me of this old story almost 10 years ago. A man was in his house and his car was being stolen, so he ran outside and killed the thief. Lots of people agreed with him because he worked hard for his car.

[dmawhorde4life]

as a resident of the state of Minnesota and a gun owner. i can see what he did while he felt threatened. but as soon as the teens were no longer a threat he should have contacted the athorities and proceeded to that path. i agree that the teens shouldn't ahve been there, but also that since he fired more than he should of and was their executioner was completely wrong and not how the state law is meant to be. I hope he gets the punishment he deserves, and the teens who were there did not get the punishment they deserved for this action.

[Dubalicious]

This reminds me of this old story almost 10 years ago. A man was in his house and his car was being stolen, so he ran outside and killed the thief. Lots of people agreed with him because he worked hard for his car.

What was he supposed to do? Call the cops so they could come tell him he probably will never see his car again? Why are we rooting for the bad guys?

[kjcasey]

There a far more criminals who kill people than law abiding citizens killing people! Gun control to people who respect the law is crazy period!

Ah sorry I was referring less about legal justification and more about justifying the idea of shooting first. I understand the need to have a means to protect yourself, so I'm not technically against gun rights, but it's become a huge problem I think. We have a right to protect our household, not slaughter people in it.