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  1. #201
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alixie View Post
    While I was grateful to have a dad that will defend his family, I was mad at him for fighting the guy because he could have had a knife or something, and you cant tell in the dark. Which is kind of the point of being allowed to use lethal force, you dont fucking know if the intruder(s) have weapons on them or not.
    His first shot is completely legal, he uses reasonable force to disable. That's akin to hitting someone round the head with a baseball/cricket bat and knocking them out cold.

    His subsequent actions were nothing more than using that bat and turning the intruder's brains to mush when he's utterly harmless at that point.

  2. #202
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foosha View Post
    First, Daily Mail is just awful. While it doesn't change the story sure, whats up with the LOOK AT THESE NICE PICTURES OF THE PERFECT STUDENTS, HOW COULD THEY GET SHOT LIKE THAT? While showing a blurred photo of the old man like he's some serial rapist/killer.

    Second, it's the right charge, but I doubt he will get charged with 2nd degree. Most likely manslaughter.

    Third, "star student"? Who the fuck laughs at a man with a gun. I mean shit, talk about stupidity. You had that one commin' to ya bud.

    ''If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,'' Absolutely hilarious. While sad, that quote is gold.

    Oh, and the old guy seems like a nice guy. He was reasonable on what happened, and told the complete truth that he probably shouldnt have shot the girl dead. Guess he was just fed up...
    He was caught, and probably realized that continuing to hide evidence (he had already attempted to hide them in the basement) would be a bad idea so fessed up. If he lied, ballistics would have shown the truth. As for his charge, from the information from the article everything he has done constitutes 2nd degree murder. The execution style kill solidifies it there.

    You could always do what I did and simply not care about the irrelevant fluff like the "Star student" thing and the pictures. Its far better for your peace of mind.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Very few have any real education, on what adrenaline does to someone. In that moment, especially certain cases, you might not be thinking clearly. This is a case.
    I don't think anyone here can say for sure that "This is a case" or "This is not a case" because we just don't have enough information.

    Personally I find great clarity in adrenaline. I guess that is different for everyone.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Unloaded? So let me get this straight. Your house keeps getting broken into, no one tries to hurt or kill you instead they just take your stuff. So instead of expecting more of the same. Thieves taking stuff but not trying to kill you. You would assume everything escalated and you must unload clips into every thief? Despite all your previous run ins didn't end up with anyone getting killed?

    Oh yeah that makes perfect sense.
    You make it sound like its okay for people to keep breaking into your house and steal your property. Maybe knowing that they can get away scott free is why they keep breaking in?

    "lol this geezer cant do shit to us! Lets grab the jewellery box and some cash and hit the road long before the cops show up."

    Also, why keep assuming all of these intruders are friendly thieves that wont be the one that wants to kill you?

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Anakso View Post
    As a side note, what kind of person laughs at a gun jamming after they have already been shot and their cousin is lying dead near them.
    A killer looms over you. His raises gun, the barrel aimed right between your eyes. You see his finger tighten around the trigger, knowing in your heart that he's about to finish you off...

    ...and nothing.

    I don't know, I might have laughed too.

  6. #206
    Pandaren Monk Maruka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Did they have a weapon? This man should be charged with first-degree murder, and his words make that pretty obvious.
    how the hell can they charge him with premeditated murder?

  7. #207
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokilar View Post
    precisely, presented evidence. which would include a copy of the police report which may or may not have the same statements written in the article. this is my entire point, youve already passed judgement on this man without seeing anything other than one simple article.
    And if countering evidence were to be presented, my opinion could change. You seem to believe my opinion is set in stone. It is not. IF he did X, than my response will be Y. If instead he did Z despite what the article said, my opinion would change. If you have a problem with coming to a decision based what you do know, instead of procrastinating based on what you don't know, I suggest you look up nihilism as a topic of interest. I personally will have none of it.

  8. #208
    You know what's despicable? People acting as though robbery is worse than murder.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    They were just robbers, no reason to shoot them... i dunno if it is just me because i am danish, but he should not be allowed to shoot them unless he threatened himself or someone else.
    So, what, he's supposed to wait until one of them produces a gun or knife? By that time it might be too late. It's simple, don't rob homes and you won't get shot as a result.

  10. #210
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maruka View Post
    how the hell can they charge him with premeditated murder?
    2nd degree murder can be bumped to 1st degree if the crime is heinous enough. I doubt that it would, in this situation, but I'd have absolutely no qualms if such a decision was reached.

  11. #211
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maruka View Post
    how the hell can they charge him with premeditated murder?
    They are charging him with 2nd degree murder.

  12. #212
    Mechagnome Usako's Avatar
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    Well he did go further than necessary I believe, as long as they were un-armed, which it seems to be the case although I am not sure. Yes he should get some jail time for stepping over the line, and I feel sorry for the families of both parties but I'm not going to mourn the loss of the two teenagers. Perhaps I am just a terrible person.

    ------

    I will add that if both teens were armed then he may have been in the right to kill them before they could kill him, but there isn't details about that right now.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    2nd degree murder can be bumped to 1st degree if the crime is heinous enough. I doubt that it would, in this situation, but I'd have absolutely no qualms if such a decision was reached.
    I honestly think it is really first degree. He was laying in wait for the girl to appear in his sights at the top of the staircase. Though I can see why prosecutors would stick to the very much rock solid case of second degree, won't make any difference in reality anyway.

  14. #214
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auloria View Post
    They are charging him with 2nd degree murder.
    He was responding to a poster who mentioned 1st degree murder, which is for the majority of cases based on the premeditated and intentional act of taking another person's life.

  15. #215
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maruka View Post
    how the hell can they charge him with premeditated murder?
    Once they were disabled, he made the conscious choice to execute them, he didn't call for police and an ambulance, he took one of them to the basement, completely defenceless and confessed to executing her.

    Even if it's only decided a minute before, it's still premeditated.


    Again, the first hit is completely legal. Swing on sight, you don't want to wait for the sign of a weapon in their hand, it might be too late then. But once you've disabled them, you stop.

  16. #216
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    I honestly think it is really first degree. He was laying in wait for the girl to appear in his sights at the top of the staircase. Though I can see why prosecutors would stick to the very much rock solid case of second degree, won't make any difference in reality anyway.
    I agree with you, and I was thinking much the same thing in terms of ambushing her... but the entire issue is messed up plenty as it is without adding speculation to it as well.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Fengore View Post
    Not reporting the incident afterwards and the bodies being found in a police search makes this less a rush of adrenaline and more borderlining "using self defence as an excuse."

    If you've disabled someone and they're down on the floor, the exhale of adrenaline knowing you're safe floods out of you. This coming from someone who's had to use a cricket bat before now, I didn't feel the need to beat their head to a pulp afterwards. Reasonable force is taking the shot/swing, once they're disabled anything else stops being defence.
    I assume you were a young man/women. Yes? Now tell that to an old man, maybe seen a war or two, possible PTSD. His reactions going to be the same? Not everyone does things "by the book".

    I don't care if he dragged the bodies and didn't tell the cops. He knew he was going to jail, regardless. At that moment, when firing shots, killing someone, then another one enters, and you kill them too. Yeah, I am going to say crime of passion. Then after he calmed down, realized oh fuck, business as usual, because I just killed two people. Might as well enjoy the time I have.

    I might do the same.

    Again, very few people have any clue what adrenaline does and how it reacts in the brain. Remember when Saving Private Ryan caused an old man to strike violently, at people, because of a fucking movie about the shit he went through?

    You don't know this man, or what he has been through.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    And if countering evidence were to be presented, my opinion could change. You seem to believe my opinion is set in stone. It is not. IF he did X, than my response will be Y. If instead he did Z despite what the article said, my opinion would change. If you have a problem with coming to a decision based what you do know, instead of procrastinating based on what you don't know, I suggest you look up nihilism as a topic of interest. I personally will have none of it.
    i have no problem coming to a decision based on things i know. however i wont make a decision on something unless i feel confident that i made the right decision and had all available resources at my disposal. this article does not provide me with enough information for me to make a decision in whether he was right or wrong, the things written in the article may or may not have transpired.

  19. #219
    So, don't laugh at someone after they've shot you?

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    I don't care if he dragged the bodies and didn't tell the cops. He knew he was going to jail, regardless. At that moment, when firing shots, killing someone, then another one enters, and you kill them too. Yeah, I am going to say crime of passion.
    You're basically changing legal definitions to suit your argument.

    He sat waiting in a chair. It doesn't matter what you say, it is not a crime of passion.

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