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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rackfu View Post
    They deserved to be shot.

    They did not deserve to be executed and then left in his basement for a day until police were notified.
    They were shot. THEN they were executed and left to rot, until he asked his neighbor for a lawyer referral and the neighbor called hte police, apparently.

  2. #22
    Guy with gun causes mayhem in the USA. More news at 11.

    "I have the god and constitution given right to use lethal force to defend my property even from children stealing fruit from my yard".

  3. #23
    Fluffy Kitten Tribunal's Avatar
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    Also, while the man's word is pretty damning and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be accurate, him presenting it as such doesn't necessarily make it so.

    Trauma, mental illness, stress, etc could all have an affect on how he perceived and therefore relayed things. Honestly, he looks like he's not "all there" and while looks can be deceiving in both directions some of his behaviors do seem to back that up.

    A confession shouldn't be taken as truth without corroboration. In this case, the forensics (even preliminary ones) should be fairly good corroboration. They aren't mentioned in the article even though they would be in the same reports as the interviews (at least an initial impression from the responding officers/detectives).

    Not saying the above is even necessarily likely, just possible.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rackfu View Post
    They deserved to be shot.

    They did not deserve to be executed and then left in his basement for a day until police were notified.
    When you break into a house, you take that risk. You say they deserve to be shot, and they were. They also happened to die because of it.
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  5. #25
    Fluffy Kitten Kasierith's Avatar
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    Even in states with Castle Doctrine/Stand your Ground, you cannot use a gun to defend your home when on the aggressive. If they do not pose a thread on your life, you cannot kill them. If they attempt to flee, even if they're taking something like your laptop, you cannot shoot them. Most people see "guns allowed in self defense" and forget that point. And hiding the bodies afterwards definitely points away from some sort of accidental incident, as do his comments regarding it.

    I hope he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    Guy with gun causes mayhem in the USA. More news at 11.

    "I have the god and constitution given right to use lethal force to defend my property even from children stealing fruit from my yard".
    Your contributions to this thread have been astounding. Please continue being such an amazing and courteous poster.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 02:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal View Post
    Also, while the man's word is pretty damning and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be accurate, him presenting it as such doesn't necessarily make it so.

    Trauma, mental illness, stress, etc could all have an affect on how he perceived and therefore relayed things. Honestly, he looks like he's not "all there" and while looks can be deceiving in both directions some of his behaviors do seem to back that up.

    A confession shouldn't be taken as truth without corroboration. In this case, the forensics (even preliminary ones) should be fairly good corroboration. They aren't mentioned in the article even though they would be in the same reports as the interviews (at least an initial impression from the responding officers/detectives).

    Not saying the above is even necessarily likely, just possible.
    I would imagine the filed criminal complaint by the police is supported by their ballistics unit. Guy probably had bloody trails on his basement floor where he dragged them away from the stairs, as well.

  7. #27
    I love how their friends are all "They were role models/ popular/ super friendly / great kids! ect" ignoring the fact they made the really stupid decision to break into a house and rob the place, probably for drugs. I love how one even said he should have shot them in the shoulder. Hello, this isnt a movie, there is no such thing as a "SAFE" place to shoot someone.

    (actually, that reminded me of the Selena murder case, where she was shot in the shoulder and died due to blood loss cus lol arteries.)

    Do criminals think they wont be met with hostile homeowners when they break into their homes? That they'll get slapped on the wrist and told to "get lost you scamps"? Its like playing on railroad tracks, or pestering a large toothy animal. Its a stupid choice that they know can end with them getting killed.

    While I dont own a gun (atm), I consider all burglars who break into my home to be armed and dangerous, and WILL kill me for my TV. I'm siding with the homeowner on this, but it does look like he panicked and decided to put them out of their misery/make sure they didnt pull out a hidden weapon, and went for the kill.

  8. #28
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Even in states with Castle Doctrine/Stand your Ground, you cannot use a gun to defend your home when on the aggressive. If they do not pose a thread on your life, you cannot kill them. If they attempt to flee, even if they're taking something like your laptop, you cannot shoot them. Most people see "guns allowed in self defense" and forget that point. And hiding the bodies afterwards definitely points away from some sort of accidental incident, as do his comments regarding it.

    I hope he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
    I'm kind of on the fence about what he should be charged with. You could argue that the first shots would have been lethal, and those were legitimate.

    What happens when you murder a dying man?

  9. #29
    'I want him dead,' the complaint quoted Smith as telling an investigator.
    He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.

    'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'.
    It's murder even by his own account. This is neither self defense nor reasonable use of force, but rahter outright, cold blooded murder.

  10. #30
    I really hope this doesn't turn into some big thing where they (the teenagers) become matyrs for something completely pointless. We don't need another Amanda Todd
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Auloria View Post
    I'm kind of on the fence about what he should be charged with. You could argue that the first shots would have been lethal, and those were legitimate.

    What happens when you murder a dying man?
    You call the police and report you shot two burglars and have them come out with paramedics. You don't give them 'good clean finishing shots'.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    When you break into a house, you take that risk. You say they deserve to be shot, and they were. They also happened to die because of it.
    No, they happened to die because after getting shot, a psychotic murderer went and straight up murdered them.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekrosislol View Post
    I really hope this doesn't turn into some big thing where they (the teenagers) become matyrs for something completely pointless. We don't need another Trayvon Martin
    Fixed for accuracy. :P

  14. #34
    Fluffy Kitten Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auloria View Post
    I'm kind of on the fence about what he should be charged with. You could argue that the first shots would have been lethal, and those were legitimate.

    What happens when you murder a dying man?
    Than it shows intent to kill rather than focus on self defense.

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    So protip:

    if you want to die, you should break into the houses of paranoid old men.

    What really gets me though, is why people give a fuck.

    Fucked up shit happens all the time. A woman put a man in jail for rape, a crime that he did not commit. A child who took his father's life after many years of sickening abuse was imprisoned for the crime of putting down something that's less significant than an ant. Africans in Africa paid a witch doctor to make them bulletproof, didn't work out so good. There are people that laugh, patronize and get their 12 year old internet hate machine on over the story of Amanda Todd.

    There is nothing you can do about it, and there never will be. All you do is sit there, get mad about it, and tell everyone who disagrees with anything you have to say, that they're a moron.

    And they probably are. But what does it accomplish? Nothing.

    Huge waste of time, nothing to be gained.

    Two teens got into an old man's basement, they got dead. That's pretty much all you can take away from this story, anything else is pure speculation. Nothing more.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Alixie View Post
    I love how their friends are all "They were role models/ popular/ super friendly / great kids! ect" ignoring the fact they made the really stupid decision to break into a house and rob the place, probably for drugs. I love how one even said he should have shot them in the shoulder. Hello, this isnt a movie, there is no such thing as a "SAFE" place to shoot someone.
    Hello, there's such a thing called not executing people who are already incapacitated and poses no threat.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Your contributions to this thread have been astounding. Please continue being such an amazing and courteous poster.[COLOR="red"]
    Sarcasm can be very useful as long as the reader understands it. In some, uneducated, people's cases sarcasm is just a bad attempt at humor. Too bad you are one such person.

  18. #38
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    You call the police and report you shot two burglars and have them come out with paramedics. You don't give them 'good clean finishing shots'.
    That doesn't address my question. Obviously a rational person would do that and avoid any charges.

  19. #39
    I'm surprised this hasn't turned into another gun control argument thread yet.

  20. #40
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    When you break into a house, you take that risk. You say they deserve to be shot, and they were. They also happened to die because of it.
    They didn't die because they were shot, they died because after they were shot and incapacitated they were EXECUTED.

    Nice to see exactly what I expected. Ridiculous comments such as "well don't break into peoples houses"

    Does that mean you condone the execution of incapacitated thieves? Instead of calling the cops and having them go to jail, it's perfectly okay to, shoot them in their heads after they can't fight any longer?

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