1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Really, I have a different recollection of this bunch of people who incorrectly cites the Minnesota castle law because they think the Wikipedia description is the same as the actual law; ignores scientific evidence to claim that gunshot victims are doomed to die, and argues that it wasn't murder because... he's not convicted yet? Or something.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 02:05 PM ----------


    No law allows him to kill them like this.
    You have a recollection of people that directly cite the Minnesota law, yet try to snub your nose at them as you'd rather not read information but demand it be spoon-fed to you while you stand on your soapbox spewing your opinion over and over again.

    Grats on having the loudest voice in the thread. /golfclap peace.

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkin View Post
    If you were in his shoes, and you knew there were potentially dangerous people inside of your home, do you wait downstairs, killing them execution style as they come down the stairs, or do you leave the house, call the police, alert a neighbour? And don't use the whole 'he wasn't thinking clearly, it was all very traumatic for him' defence, because when it comes to killing someone in cold blood that defence doesn't really hold up.
    Obviously you have never been in a situation like that... it's not like the movies and clear, rational thought goes out the window.

  3. #1023
    Warchief Mall Security's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    personally, id consider a coup de grace a dealbreaker for a self defense strategy. luckily for him im not on the jury or he'd be fucked. unfortunately for him i suspect that enough of his jury share my view

    Yeah people like you shouldn't be on a jury, because the judge would give you an outline and rules for weighing the evidence, and my guess is you would ignore them, unlike most and go with your own gut feeling, and put a 64 year old man in prison to make yourself feel better.

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Well, you're probably right about that. But the way these people are playing down the way the murderer brutally executed them makes my stomach churn. There is something seriously wrong with a person if they can't recognise "shooting a girl multiple times in the chest while she's down, and then fired a shot up into her cranium for a good clean finishing shot" as what it is - cold blooded, inexcusable murder.
    I could change just a couple of words in your post here and it's a perfect description of abortion. If I remember correctly you're pro-choice. My stomach churns and you support it as a legal right. Same thing here, your stomach churns and someone supports it as a legal right. People believe different things. I don't disagree with you on this situation though. He needs to be charged with murder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinoashi View Post
    He doesn't need a source to know that he pretty much hit the nail on the head.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” - Christopher Hitchens

  5. #1025
    I am Murloc! Bananarepublic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    Hell, shoot to inflict maximum damage. If it kills, so be it.

    But once they're no longer a threat you no longer have the right to continue injuring/killing them. He could have used a pillow to smother them for all it matters, at that point he was no longer defending himself but executing two people.
    But I am humane.

  6. #1026
    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    His actions including the bravado about the shooting makes me believe he was anything but sane. I am not dehumanizing anyone, the home owner is the victim in a home invasion, and this guy has been victimized multiple times.
    The bravado means he's a dumbass. If you were in control and knew what you were doing, that points to being sane. You don't go to the loony bin for being stupid.

  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by Horkymon View Post
    You have a recollection of people that directly cite the Minnesota law
    No, none of you cited the Minnesota law. All I've seen is people citing Wikipedia.

    This is the actual law:

    609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.

    The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.

    He was not preventing a felony by shooting teens who as far as he could see were only tresspassing - and later, was bleeding on his floors.

    yet try to snub your nose at them as you'd rather not read information but demand it be spoon-fed to you while you stand on your soapbox spewing your opinion over and over again.
    Yet I'm the only one who's going off on the actual Minnesota law and case law, rather than confused application of the generic castle law that you read off Wikipedia.

    Apparently tellling you lot to check the actual law code was too subtle a hint.
    Last edited by semaphore; 2012-11-27 at 02:28 PM.

  8. #1028
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    No, striclty speakign until he is convicted he is not guilty.

    A murderer who isn't convicted for whatever reason (besides that the facts says they coudln't have done it) can still very well be a murderer.
    But legally he is not (is what matters)

  9. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    That sounds great! Obama is so wonderful he can make criminals( people known for not following laws) abide by guns laws?
    Also he can make sure the police are at the scene of all crimes 100% of the time before any damage can be done to law abiding citizens and their hard earned property?
    This is the number one pro-gun argument, and at the same time of all pro arguments the outright DUMBEST!!!!!

    Because 2 cents worth brain figure out that if there weren't guns around, the criminals would have less access to them, hence gun violence would be nowhere compared to where it is now. And... picture that... With no one having guns, you wouldn't need a gun to protect yourself from guns..

    Your logic is so flawed... If what you said was true, then the entire modern world must be doing something horribly wrong. Yet their gun violence is a lot lower... hmmmmmmm....... weird
    We are talking about a robbery case here.
    Let's say things would have been different. No one was at home. The two robbers would have been 2 lowlife gang crooks.
    Oh look what they found in the house? 2 guns. (at least, cause 2 firearms was what he used). Guess where those 2 guns would have been after the robbery?
    With the 2 crooks...... another 2 guns on the streets to be used to kill people.

    The people defending the 2nd amendment radically are the ones at fault.
    Everyone wants guns to defend themselves from others who could shoot them. Most of those guns who are a threat are in circulation illegally.
    News Flash.. Criminals cannot get a gun. Criminals are Felons. Felony barres a person from the right to bear arms, from the right to possess a gun, even if it's just for having it at home.
    So, the fault is with the law abiding citizen... Must be.. because, criminals cannot get guns legally.

    Bottomline..... The moment an individual who possesses a gun, and is willing to use it purposely for the reason to kill, without considering other means, that individual should never be allowed to have a gun.
    It is just that simple.
    Last edited by Wildtree; 2012-11-27 at 02:29 PM.

  10. #1030
    after reading the article i'm quite shocked.

    seems to me the man is more or less a psychopath who just waited for this to happen, so he could quench his thirst to execute someone.

    fucked up laws protecting crazy people like this is why I don't understand they tried to rob someone in the first place.

  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by Brasco View Post
    Obviously you have never been in a situation like that... it's not like the movies and clear, rational thought goes out the window.
    So you wouldn't run? Your instinct would be to wait and kill the intruders. He was in control the entire time and he knew it.

  12. #1032
    Anyone who breaks into someones home should expect lethal force to be used.

    He didn't need to kill them, but I'm glad he did.

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Gee, I don't know, maybe she heard gunshots and came to check if her cousin is alright?
    Most people don't run to gun shots while in the process of committing a crime unless its to shoot back. Either way you can't expect the guy to magically know the intentions of someone coming down the steps that has broken into your home.

  14. #1034
    Warchief Mall Security's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    No, none of you cited the Minnesota law. All I've seen is people citing Wikipedia.

    This is the actual law:

    609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.

    The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.

    He was not preventing a felony by shooting teens who as far as he could see were only tresspassing - and later, was bleeding on his floors.


    HAHAHA A guy gave you a Link to the actual online MN library that specifically PROVED YOU FUCKING WRONG!


    It wasn't Wikipedia, I checked, Face it you don't know what you are talking about, and you can't argue a rational or logical argument to save your life.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    No, striclty speakign until he is convicted he is not guilty.
    If he's not convicted murderer then he is not guilty of murder then he is not murderer.

    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    A murderer who isn't convicted for whatever reason (besides that the facts says they coudln't have done it) can still very well be a murderer.
    Murder is a legal term - unlawful killing, blah blah blah. Only judge can decide what is lawful and what's not.
    He can be a killer - and he is. But until proven guilty of murder - he killed legally.

    Now proceed with ignoring facts and strawmaning.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkin View Post
    So you wouldn't run? Your instinct would be to wait and kill the intruders. He was in control the entire time and he knew it.
    Sorry, but no. I absolutely refuse to run from anyone in my own home. If there's one place a person should feel safe in this world, it should be in their own home. I will defend it with my life.

  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthedruid View Post
    Anyone who breaks into someones home should expect lethal force to be used.

    He didn't need to kill them, but I'm glad he did.
    People like you are why the world is a bad place.

  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    But legally he is not (is what matters)
    Then don't discuss any case whatsoever before the jury delivers its verdict.

  19. #1039
    Mechagnome Sealed Shut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Yeah she was totally coming after him by "walking" down the stairs.
    what exactly was she doing then? did she get lost in his house and think that the basement was the way out?

  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    No, none of you cited the Minnesota law. All I've seen is people citing Wikipedia.
    You, sir, are a lazy, lazy person. Learn to follow the cited pages in wikipedia. Oh wait, since it's just wikipedia it's just all pipe dreams and whatever twack jobs decide to post, you know, instead of there actually being sources CITED. (HINT: they're at the bottom of the page)

    Have your victory in whatever argument, semaphore, as you've made it very much clear that you will only look upon the situation from your one point of view.

    done w/ this thread. cya

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