Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[Valenhil]

We hate criminals here what can I say. They are either taking our shit, raping our family members, or killing us. Even if they get arrested they are just a drain on society as we have to pay to keep them well fed and with better healthcare than a lot of us have. So we shoot them, its the only way to win.

The fact you actually believe that is both tragic and hilarious. And i didn't nation bash anywhere in this thread. Every nation has problems, and that is one of USA's.

[Themius]

Doesn't happen that often

I already posted earlier that killing is only justified if you're in danger. We aren't evil people. I Think we're pretty friendly even if we aren't very good when it comes to things like geography ..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1159562.html

Do you agree with what this man did?

[GreatOak]

Not nation bashing because it's true. America's principals are more about what can I do for myself, how I can make myself better, and what is in it for me. That is the culture of America. Self reliance, and so those that don't come off as such are seen as well... not standing members of society. There is a lack of community sense here. I hear it all the time from immigrants, and Americans alike.

Eh, it's really just a different way to approach community. We think empowering individuals is the best way to have a strong community, but I can understand the reasons why people think valuing the collective is superior.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sHM2FvoWQ&feature=plcp

[Themius]

The fact you actually believe that is both tragic and hilarious.

It is... since Americans are more likely to be shot by their own family members.

Case and point.

My friends brother killed his brother with a shot to the head by "accident" in an argument some 20 years ago.

My friends brother was almost shot by a shotgun when the mother thought she saw him grab their daughter by her shirt(surely a good reason to kill someone)

[Ichy]

My father-in-law teaches gun saftey and training courses, and no, they don't teach you to kill intruders. Eliminating the threat can mean a lot of things, getting them to leave your house, disabling them so that they can't attack you, and yes, even killing them. However, your intent should be to protect yourself first, not to kill the intruders. If you kill the intruders in the process of protecting yourself, well that's one thing. But almost everything that happened in this article is so absurdly wrong towards proper self defense it's just crazy.

Correct, My wording was extremely poor.

So... we should shoot to kill so we can avoid court cases?

The court case might not be avoidable even if you shoot to kill. However, given the state of areas where burglaries are a common thing, just scaring away would be attackers might not be the best bet. As, and this has happened to friends of mine, the would be thief can come back with friends...with guns. Also, said court case, if the theif wins, your life is ruined/FUBAR.

[Moadar]

The fact you actually believe that is both tragic and hilarious.

There is a lot going on in this thread that is both tragic and hilarious.

[GreatOak]

Do you agree with what this man did?

No, why? I already said as much in an earlier post.

[Themius]

Eh, it's really just a different way to approach community. We think empowering individuals is the best way to have a strong community, but I can understand the reasons why people think valuing the collective is superior.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sHM2FvoWQ&feature=plcp

Empowering, sure, but if you fall down a crack and you need help and rehabilitation, sorry you're damaged goods.

[GreatOak]

so our sociecty isnt really a free society?

No, but its more free than most of the world. Things like the Patriot Act, bailouts, and NDAA hurt our freedom so I wouldn't say we're as free as we should be.

[BlasphemousMusic]

He's probably not a criminal now as he said he WAS a dickhead. You know there is this magical thing called growing up, realizing your mistakes, and becoming a better person.

this is the same "better person" who calls people names and uses bad stereotypes. I find it rather telling he was a criminal as a child (and who knows about now) and sides with criminals.

[Wildtree]

I think your experience is bullshit, your the edgy teen here, so edgy brooooooooo

no, actually what he says is absolutely correct.

I've worked for several years very closely together with a security service. The owner was a close friend of mine. Times and I again I witnessed when he kept his cool for a long long time, and did not act at all, other than just talking. Every single time he did act, was just with the bare minimum to restraint the "object".
Not once I've seen him or any of his employees get beyond a point of what was absolutely necessary.

But here we have a case of people who do these kind of things for a living. They use psychology first. Men are sheep. They really are. It is so easily possible to manipulate even the most violent person with simple tricks. So I know a thing or two about the differences of how critical situations can be handled.
Most of them could end rather peacefully without anyone getting injured.

I would go as far as having every gun owner has to get through some sort of trainings class.
Learn to shoot, learn how to act with a gun in case of a self defense situation happens.
An intruder can be taken out with a gun easily without killing them. The moment one thinks they aim for the head first, they are already wrong.
The extremities are the prime targets.. Legs, Arms.. All it needs is to disable them. Then it's the authorities job to take over.

[kjcasey]

Or circumstance. I know this probably isn't true, but what if the kids were stealing to support a sick relative. You don't know the full story and now you never will, because they are dead.

Your kidding? I dont care why they were stealing I cant believe anyone would say such a thing!!! you cant break into a mans home to steal no matter what reason you have.If it was to help a sick relative then knock on the door and ask for help! He had every right to shoot those kids and I feel bad for their families, but they took that risk good or bad it was their choice! I will say I dont believe once the threat was gone he had the right to continue unless he had other concerns of safety like them coming back later.

Infracted. Keep your posts civil

[Tuvok]

The home owner incapacitated them, and then executed them stuck them in the basement. Didn't call the cops. The neighbor did the next day.

Situations like these are too complicated to be summarised in articles created by private media companies. I will not make a judgement unless I know a sufficient amount of factual knowledge about the case. What is understatedly important here is how the shooter felt when he executed them. Did he kill them simply because he thought "How dare these kids come in here, I'll make them pay", or was he not thinking at all, and simply acted on blind rage and fear and no actual thought whatsoever because he had been forced into a situation where his rational mind had been completey disabled? If the first is true, it is excessive, if the second is true, he was psychologically compromised through no fault of his own, and the deaths of those two teenagers while unfortunate, can simply be considered an unintended consequence of their misguided actions and not a cognititive action of the homeowner.

You have to understand the limitations of a human's capacity to deal with situations like these. It can turn even the most seemingly sensible and logical person into an instinct driven machine. And much the same way we do not put animals in prison for killing humans, we cannot put a human that is reduced to animal instinct in prision for acting in an animalistic way, especially since the dead teenagers were the aggressors.

[Amnasty]

Do you agree with what this man did?

You seem to forget our nation was BUILT BY gunslingers revolting. We are not afraid to defend ourselves, at whatever that costs, and you shouldnt complain so much, because when in need my country is always there indeed. If it is sending drones to help even the playing field for middle eastern revolutionaries getting fired upon by their government.

Im surprised you have been infracted for bashing yet, thats all you have done for the last 10 pages.

[Woa]

What is it with Americans and fucking stuff?!?! It's just fucking stuff! Now you're trying to claim thieves become your slaves?

Even slaves back in the day couldn't just be killed off and tortured. Yeah it happened, but it still wasn't legal in quite a few areas.

You clearly excel in comprehension. I'll spell it out. The time and work it too to acquire the STUFF is what I'm talking about. This guy used to work security for the government. He put in work, paid his dues and bought his stuff. These dumbass kids were robbing him of his hard work, STUFF/happiness, taking away his sense of security and home.

I didn't mean they'd become his slaves. I'm just saying that if some jackass comes and breaks into my home all his rights should be waved, INCLUDING the right for his family to get back a decent corpse. I'll wreck their bodies like they wrecked my home and my sense of well being. What is it with FOREIGNERS and thinking they're different because they live somewhere else.

[Moadar]

I would go as far as having every gun owner has to get through some sort of trainings class.
Learn to shoot, learn how to act with a gun in case of a self defense situation happens.
An intruder can be taken out with a gun easily without killing them. The moment one thinks they aim for the head first, they are already wrong.
The extremities are the prime targets.. Legs, Arms.. All it needs is to disable them. Then it's the authorities job to take over.

Your idea of a gun class would be called "How to get yourself killed or sued 101". No one aims for the head you aim for center of mass, and you are damn stupid if you try aiming for anything other than the chest.

[Atrea]

Okey you have a point there. but the whole discussion has been assuming they entered somebody else house, and the big debate is about what happened after this old man shoot these stupid kids.. So yes, i have to assume that the part of them breaking in is real, or else the discussion would be pointless and we would be talking about 2 poor kids that didn't do a thing and died because of a Psycho

Well that's precisely what is bothering me about this thread.

We're all taking this lunatic's word as etched in stone, and the circumstances surrounding the case are suspicious.

I believe these kids may have been the victims of a horrible crime, and that this individual is being touted as a hero for 'defending himself', when evidence and common sense suggests that he was doing no such thing.


Look, I get it guys. If someone breaks into your house, you want to shoot them. I wouldn't personally, but I respect your right to a difference of opinion. I also know that the laws work differently in the US than in most of the rest of the world. I don't agree with that either, but again, I respect your right to a difference of opinion.

What bothers me is the number of people who are saying "they got what they deserved", and painting them as somehow less than human because one of them was a "drug user".

You don't know what happened. None of us do. But if you look at the case at hand, and use a shred of common sense, you will see that what the shooter is claiming happened seems very unlikely. You'll see the fact that the shooter himself did not notify the authorities, rather his neghbour did; the fact that his house had only been burglarized once, not eight times;, and the fact that the law doesn't permit you to execute somebody once a threat is gone.

There's a stupid debate going on in this thread, fueled by the assumption that these two teens were doing something wrong. I want to know why it is automatically assumed that they were. I want to know why, just because one of them was a "drug user", that they are being dehumanized. And I want to know most of all, why no one else is asking any of these questions.

[GreatOak]

Empowering, sure, but if you fall down a crack and you need help and rehabilitation, sorry you're damaged goods.

Who says we're against rehabilitation and help? There are other ways to help people besides government force.

[Ichy]

The point is in my poll the Americans first response was to pretty much shoot and kill while Europeans were more about securing, calling cops, and confronting after that had been done. Not kill, not stab to death (as is more common than guns) but confront and try to get them out and threaten. Americans were pretty much SHOOT KILL! I mean the country does have a lot of guns and since no one wants to let go of the archaic second amendment, it stands to reason Americans are more likely to want to shoot and kill than Europeans.

Your pull was on the internet, where people are more likely to choose the extreme options because "ITS COOL, LOL!" then to answer honestly. While I've been defending our right for guns and their use as "safety" weapons. Up to a point (which I said in my first reply to you) the guy (byron) was in the right... then he did things that he shouldn't have... and will more than likely go to jail because of the High amount of doubt and suspicion that will be put on him because of it.

As for my self, I use guns to protect my home, my Family ALWAYS has, but we never seek to take a life, only if necessary. IE the sound of shot gun and a dirt/debree hitting a burglar is usually more than enough to scare them away, often for good.

and as GreatOak said, most of us are a freindly bunch... though New York and Tourist destinations can and do give us bad rep (out side of the occasional gun story).

[Deleted]

i genuinely wish that all the hypocrites defending the 2 criminals will one day find themselves stuck in their basement with two drug addicts breaking into your house for the 8th time, fearing for their life.

then i'd love to see how symphatetic, perfectly rational and loyal to their high morals they would be.