Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[Boogums]

This seems like a ridiculous editorial slant - how about a headline that goes like this: Drug addicted youths that enjoy preying on the elderly, looking to make another easy score, get what they deseve. A quick word of caution - if you break into my elderly parents house, they will shoot you first and ask questions later.

That would make a terrible headline. Way too long.

[Waaldo]

"His brother, Bruce Smith, said that this was the latest of eight burglaries in recent years."
This guy was probably fed up with people breaking into his house. I can see why he snapped.

[mysticx]

I like how half the article was people going on about how popular the two teens were, apparently that's just as important as this guy killing them.

Two very weird things are going on there, the "They were popular so they couldn't possibly do anything bad"-thing and the old man going all "80s revenge flick" on them, both make me really wonder about the state America is in ATM...

[Waaldo]

That would make a terrible headline. Way too long.

Yeah, but it's the truth.

[blib]

Some peoples rush to judgement and to subvert the law do to their own personal moral convictions are exactly why the justice system is broken, and we have millions of people in jail for soft crimes who are then turned into hardened criminals, while millions more roam free because the justice system is so backed up with nonsense like this.


This man didn't go out and KILL anybody, this was Not First Degree or Second Degree murder, at best it would be Manslaughter, and seeing as how the entire incident would have been avoided if they had not entered this OLD MANS house to rob him, NONE of this would have ever even have happened.


He isn't a danger to society, and this incident is in no way a fucking referendum on gun control or the lack of it. This is a simple case of two people who blindly decided to disregard the rules, and the law broke into this mans PRIVATE RESIDENCE his HOME, to steal from him not much unlike rape, and they paid the price, End of Story.

You are equating rape with stealing?
The punishment for breaking and entering is not death and it certainly should not be up to a citizen to carry out that penalty even if it was. Trying to make it sound like they deserved to die because they stole from someone is insane. If that's the type of rule you want why not just move to Iran where they agree with you?

In this particular case he executed defenseless kids after they no longer posed a threat, by his own admition, that is second degree murder. Him being old and they being on his property does not make murder legal.

[semaphore]

How did they cease posing a threat... by my estimation once dead they cease posing a threat.

Your estimation is not legally valid. They ceased posing a threat, at the latest, when they are down on the ground bleeding with no weapons in sight. No application of the Reasonable Person test could have found them a threat at that point.

And even if they were still a threat then... under Minnesota law he has a duty to retreat. Instead he executes them. This invalidates self-defense.

[Deleted]

If TV has taught us anything its:
Do NOT break into an old crazy mans house
Try to rob steal from old crazy man
Bring a girl with you...(Really now why would you)
Laugh at him when his gun jams


Take notes people.. TAKE NOTES.

[Terridon]

So what your saying is if I broke into your home, started stealing your shit and possibly had a weapon on me to attack anyone who would stop me, that you would sit back and let me do that, because you feel you have no right protecting what is your from pathetic fucks who think they have the right to take from others? Alright, give me your address, I'll be right over.

I only have a bow, and knifes, and no i wouldn't torture you to death after you clearly wasn't a threat. Nor execute you
You're sick in the head. Deal with it :P

[Zaelsino]

Unbelievable. Disabling a couple of stupid intruders is one thing, but dragging them into the basement to rot before cold-bloodedly executing them is not okay.

[semaphore]

Are you saying you shouldn't have the right to defend yourself on property you own?

You don't have the right to execute people who pose no threat on your property. Big difference.

[Spectral]

WEll he'd already shot her in the chest and she still laughed at him, guess he was just being cautious

His claim that she laughed at him seems more like evidence that he's demented and delusional than anything else.

[rogueMatthias]

He tried to shoot her again and it jammed, and then she laughed. Don't distort the order to justify his actions.

I just meant that she had been shot, and was still ok enough to laugh at him, so she was probably still ok to shoot him too if she had a weapon. How would he know at any moment how capable they are or aren't to be able to shoot back?

The story states that the two HAD already stolen guns from him amongst other valuables.. so he would probably assume they were armed.

[Wikko]

I can understand using even deadly force if your life is in real danged, even tho I wouldnt probably kill a guy just because he's trying to steal my tv, things can be bought you know, but what I seriously cant understand is why people think it is okay to execute a person when they're ceased to be a threat to you. There's something wrong with people over here.

[semaphore]

Actually, you see, it does.

No it doesn't. There are no laws permitting you to execute someone who poses no threat.

Whether you agree with the law or not is a different story.

Right back at you.

[Deleted]

Are you saying you shouldn't have the right to defend yourself on property you own? Here is an easy solution, don't break into someones property without their permission. Is it really that hard?
Killing people who break into your own is not the reason, AT ALL, why our country is "neck deep in shit".

We'll where I live, I'm NOT entitled to kill a person, even if he breaks into my home. But that doesn't mean everyone is breaking into other people's homes. I'm just saying that instead of killing the teens, then he should have called the police, that's what we do. And last year in Denmark there was 14 firearms assaults, in US it was 9400 according to NationMaster, that seems like quite a difference even compared with the size of our countries...

We'll killing everyone who breaks into your home, doesn't seem like a + on the GNP to me, even if they are drug abusers. Did you know that you can become clean?

[semaphore]

I just meant that she had been shot, and was still ok enough to laugh at him, so she was probably still ok to shoot him too if she had a weapon.

Perhaps. Doesn't change the fact that she was unarmed and he shot her while she posed no actual visible threat. His actions does not pass the must of the Reasonable Person test.

The story states that the two HAD already stolen guns from him amongst other valuables.. so he would probably assume they were armed.

No, the story states that he had guns stolen only.

[Lagwin]

I don't really care, it IS in America and excessive force and guns kinda go hand in hand there...not to say it wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world but at least then you can be shocked or horrified about something like that happening as it is rare...but not so much in America where it is an almost daily occurrence and they do nothing about it.

[Jantasir]

Yep, i say its okay. You break into my house, armed or not i will be and i will use it. Sorry about your luck! Should have made the smarter choice that also comes with a longer life expectancy. I feel for the parents losing a child is never easy. Hell, i'd sympathize with them even if i were the one who shot the kids, but the end result wouldnt change.

[Deleted]

"even" force is a retarded concept that will most likely get you killed in any realistic situation

[Elim Garak]

Did you just base this entirely on the title? Even a cursory glance at the abstract reveals much more specific data than you imply:

Specific data about hospital patients. That is people who made it to the hospital.
Also no data on the kind of gunshots. There are point blank ones and there are from afar ones, loose bullets, ricochets, shot thru obstacle, etc. Point blank ones are pretty fatal. If they include every kind of a gunshot in their stats - it's no surprise that gunshot to the heart is not that fatal according to it. Though 69.6% mortality rate in emergency room (I guess it's those patients who barely made it to the hospital).
Is it enough to say "gunshots to the chest are not that fatal"? No. It is not.
Most fatalities from gunshots happen before the arrival of ambulance. Do you understand my point now?