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  1. #1

    [Fire] 5.1 Combustion

    Did it make it to live, or they reverted it after all?

  2. #2
    Its in the patch notes so it looks like it wasn't reverted like the pyroblast cd was.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    From the look of it made it to live, which is a bit of a joke but oh well.

  4. #4
    So in the end, will it affect out dps or not?

  5. #5
    "Combustion periodic damage is now based only on the current Ignite, instead of both Ignite and Pyroblast. Damage has been increased to bring it up to approximately "
    My bet is that its gonna be less on fights without movement because you could imba (since blizz fixed it it was imba!) stack the combustions but on the other fights or if you didnt perfect it its gonna be the same or better.

  6. #6
    It will be a net increase in dps. Less RNG which is good. ( As long as the increased damage makes up for the pyro dot component )

  7. #7
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Considering I've had Ignites as large as 80K on fights which aren't Elegon yet my biggest Combust (again, outside of Elegon) has been ~50K ticks, yes it's going to be a big dps increase.
    On patchwerk, single target fights we'll see it become much easier to get consistent combusts of 30K+, and even on fights with movements and using Scorch you'll be able to get 20K+ with decent building.
    It's a massive buff to an already very-strong class.

  8. #8
    Do you ever hit Combustion without having at least done one Pyroblast? If they manage to balance the damage as they say they will then your old Ignite + Pyroblast dot damage should be the same as your new Ignite-only damage.

    In theory at least..

  9. #9
    So if you see a big P! crit combust? Or still carry on as before and hope to roll 4 P! crits with the macro? Because afaik there's no difference apart P! dot. You still have to get a big Ignite, right?

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreas1999 View Post
    Do you ever hit Combustion without having at least done one Pyroblast? If they manage to balance the damage as they say they will then your old Ignite + Pyroblast dot damage should be the same as your new Ignite-only damage.

    In theory at least..
    If that's the case this is a ridiculously large buff; pre-5.1 Combust was taken from 33% of Ignite and 50% of Pyro DoT (could be the other way around), from 5.1 onwards it'll take Ignite only, but will tick at 100% of Ignite damage (AFAIK, could have changed this in recent builds). If the new Ignite damage is similar to what you could get Ignite to currently, you'll see Combusts of 50-60K fairly commonly on pulls (assuming decent RNG, don't even need perfect), with maximums nearing the 100K mark, only increasing as we get more gear.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    If that's the case this is a ridiculously large buff; pre-5.1 Combust was taken from 33% of Ignite and 50% of Pyro DoT (could be the other way around).
    That's a confusing way of phrasing it, but yeah. But the other way around.

    Ignite DPS is 50% of an Ignite tick.
    Pyro dot DPS is 33% of a Pyro dot tick, approximately.

    This change is going to be a pretty big buff to Combustion, and we all knew this since it was announced, but I am surprised that they've not added in a way to reduce our Ignite damage after scraping the 3 second cooldown on Pyro, because this is very true:

    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Considering I've had Ignites as large as 80K on fights which aren't Elegon yet my biggest Combust (again, outside of Elegon) has been ~50K ticks, yes it's going to be a big dps increase.
    On patchwerk, single target fights we'll see it become much easier to get consistent combusts of 30K+, and even on fights with movements and using Scorch you'll be able to get 20K+ with decent building.
    It's a massive buff to an already very-strong class.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    If that's the case this is a ridiculously large buff; pre-5.1 Combust was taken from 33% of Ignite and 50% of Pyro DoT (could be the other way around), from 5.1 onwards it'll take Ignite only, but will tick at 100% of Ignite damage (AFAIK, could have changed this in recent builds).
    If it ticks at 100% of Ignite damage, then Combustion will do way to much damage. But I haven't read Blizzard state that 1 tick Ignite = 1 tick Combustion. All I've seen is that they're not going to include the Pyroblast dot in their calculations, but instead base the Combustion damage purely on the Ignite ticks.
    Last edited by andreas1999; 2012-11-27 at 02:24 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by andreas1999 View Post
    All I've seen is that they're not going to include the Pyroblast dot in their calculations, but instead base the Combustion damage purely on the Ignite ticks.
    Yes, but from what we know so far, it will tick for 100% of ignite's damage, which could result in a fairly quick hotfix with a nerf.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Baalb View Post
    Yes, but from what we know so far, it will tick for 100% of ignite's damage, which could result in a fairly quick hotfix with a nerf.
    Where are you getting that info from? Is this on the PTR? If it's true, then yes, it'll be hotfixed so quickly you won't even have a chance to cast a single Fireball .

    It's clear from the patch note that Blizzard's intent is not to buff Combustion, but to keep it's damage equal to what it is now. I can't imagine they'd completely mess it up and give Combustion and Ignite a 1:1 relationship.

  15. #15
    wowdb.com/spells/11129-combustion

    Wich states: "If the target is currently affected by your Ignite, it also burns the target for additional damage equal to the damage per tick of the Ignite every 1 sec for 10 sec."

    // can't post links <.<

  16. #16
    If we are only basing Combustion off of Ignite, are we going to want to basically go to the un-glyphed version, and using on CD with "any" decent number?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzu View Post
    wowdb.com/spells/11129-combustion

    Wich states: "If the target is currently affected by your Ignite, it also burns the target for additional damage equal to the damage per tick of the Ignite every 1 sec for 10 sec."

    // can't post links <.<
    Ah thanks! In that case - Since Ignite ticks every 2 seconds - Combustion would do 200% of Ignite's damage? 30k Ignite tick every 2 seconds = 30k Combustion tick every 1 sec.

    I'm thinking that tooltip is not how it will be implemented on the servers.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kif View Post
    If we are only basing Combustion off of Ignite, are we going to want to basically go to the un-glyphed version, and using on CD with "any" decent number?
    I doubt it.

    Nothing has really changed with how we use Combustion. Our goal is still the same - build up a massive Ignite and then use Combustion. We never specifically aimed to get a big Pyro dot on the target, it was just went hand in hand with building big Ignites with Pyroblast.

    Sans any other changes, glyphed Combustion still syncs nicely with our big cooldowns so usage won't need to change.

  19. #19
    The change really makes me wonder if they ran out of time to test the fire changes after they took out the nerfs or if it just got lost in the jumble. Ice was nerfed for pvp reasons, which makes it less pve viable and arcane which is the worst of the three specs wasn't even glanced at(I suppose it got a spellsteal buff in a way). I guess its fire or nothing for raiding mages now.

  20. #20
    I think they want to see how the damage bump part of their fix will work in the wild before they go on to tempering the availability of pyroblast, which I believe they found to actually hinder dps more than they realized. But that's just speculation on my part.

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