Thread: 5.1 Ultimatum

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  1. #1

    5.1 Ultimatum

    Ps this isnt any troll post or anything, i just wanted to get this out of me,
    and english isnt my mother language, soo i made alot of mistakes, im sure of it !!

    I made myself a ultimatum till 5.1, if rogues will remain in shitty position in PVP, i will reroll other class, but well, all buff we will get :

    The energy cost of Kick has been reduced to 10 (was 15).
    ----- nothing will rly change
    Seal Fate will now only be activated by melee combo point generating abilities.
    -----this is rather nerf, but was needed.
    Shuriken Toss now deals double damage when used against targets further than 10 yards away.
    ----- im range class now?
    The cooldown of Blind has been reduced to 90 seconds, down from 3 minutes.
    ------ okay this is nice buff actualy, but warrior have same CC on same CD, but aoe...
    The energy cost of the Burst of Speed talent has been reduced to 50 energy, down from 60 energy.
    ------- no1 will use it even after this ...
    Wound Poison now deals 33% more damage.
    ----- all classes have it baked in other abilities, why not rogues?

    Well, u can say that rogues will be fine as they get gear, (haste will fix it!!), this point is, gear-level u are talking about will come in the end of next season, where u get full epic pvp gear, then they might be okay. Untill then rogues will be ignored.
    I knew 11 rogues mains when MoP launched, they all did some PvP, some of them did pve aswell, 6 always quited game, 3 rerolled another class, and another told me recently that he will reroll too, that leaves one rogue remaining. They all reached 90 on rogue 1st. Well, i think this is pretty much enough to realize something is wrong about it...
    Now there is ALOT of post in any forum (wowhead, MMO, blizz official (EU / US)) where rogues are asking what is wrong? hoping for buffs or just complaining. No feedback at all, on statements like :

    Rogues are not underpowered, but other classes are just OP at the moment.
    Haste will fix it!

    This pretty much sais that blizz have no idea how to fix rogues, even when every second QQ post contain several ideas what to fix, or they just could revamp class completely (this is only way i think).

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
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    Yeah, blizz has no idea how to fix rogues. But a random forum goer, like you, knows exactly what they need! Want a 1 shot button, while you're at it?

  3. #3
    No, i want to be competitive, do as good as other classes do, it sound stupid, but when u go into arena and u will get humiliated by resto druid, by his way better CC then u have ... then there is something completely wrong...
    And im not claiming that i know how to fix them, but i know where to start...

  4. #4
    You're complaining about an ability to deal damage on ranged without blowing a gap closer because "im range class now?"

    Really?
    The reason you are disappointed is that you are trying your very hardest to be.

  5. #5
    I didnt say that i dont like to have range ability, i just would prefer to have some mobility buffs to be able rather do dmg in melee.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal
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    Selective posts like this (where you ignore everything that a rogue has that most other classes dont have seems to me your just targetting specific abilities and actually ignoring the big picture. I don't even PVP really yet I believe that you should re-roll and try that - Then once you have realised that the class you have re-rolled to has lots of things you would like to change maybe you will then notice the positives on the rogue.

    Sometimes its easy to take things for granted - until they are taken away.

    Good Luck

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Veresa View Post
    I didnt say that i dont like to have range ability, i just would prefer to have some mobility buffs to be able rather do dmg in melee.
    You have both gap closers and a way to deal damage to ranged, it is not an either/or situation.
    You even got a mobility buff and criticised that too...

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    You have both gap closers and a way to deal damage to ranged, it is not an either/or situation.
    You even got a mobility buff and criticised that too...
    AND 70% movement reduction with dat lol poison.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Pridelock View Post
    Selective posts like this (where you ignore everything that a rogue has that most other classes dont have seems to me your just targetting specific abilities and actually ignoring the big picture. I don't even PVP really yet I believe that you should re-roll and try that - Then once you have realised that the class you have re-rolled to has lots of things you would like to change maybe you will then notice the positives on the rogue.

    Sometimes its easy to take things for granted - until they are taken away.

    Good Luck
    I tried and i did better, all i missed is escape ability like vanish.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 11:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    AND 70% movement reduction with dat lol poison.
    It is only 50% now, 70% when u shiv

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 11:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    You have both gap closers and a way to deal damage to ranged, it is not an either/or situation.
    You even got a mobility buff and criticised that too...
    Burst of speed cost still way too much energy, yes i can be used against classes like frost mage, yes but i would still prefer it with, lets say 5 sec CD?
    I clearly stated that i dont like to have range ability as meele, but i can live with that, if it is buff that will make rogue *better*, then soo be it.
    Last edited by Veresa; 2012-11-27 at 10:54 AM.

  10. #10
    I usually avoid topics like these because at the end of the day, random players will never understand certain things, especially if they don't even pvp. Now, after reading one of the most ignorant replies from clearly inexperienced players, i had to bite.

    OP is right. Rogue will not be one bit less frustrating after these "buffs". Buff to burst of speed is nothing, because it's a bad talent in a badly designed tier. It's not a mobility buff. It's a change made by people who clearly don't play rogues to make a bad talent more attractive but it won't be as long as it drains more than 30 energy when used. Even if it did that, it loses with utility to shadowstep and preparation and will remain as a stupid choise until preparation becomes baseline or removed (with compensated cds) or shadowstep becomes baseline.

    Rogues don't have 70% slow like the hero above me said. They can utilize a stronger slow via shiv, but the poison has been 50% since MoP pre-patch. Rogues overall took a huge overnerf. There was nothing wrong with their design and utility in 4.3. The only thing that went wrong was blizzards stupid idea that sub needs to be a pve spec and the damage just went over the top. Hemo should have never been buffed because it made rogues easy mode because of the retarded damage you could spam with just hemo. But blizzard is blizzard. They just don't know what they are doing.

    Rogue will be as bad to play as it is now in 5.1. The design of the class fails so much at the moment. Blizzards "conservative" buffs were just a showcase of their bad knowledge of pvp.

  11. #11
    Thank u Johnmatrix,
    atleast one can see throught.
    Like i stated, only way how to fix rogues is just do revamp, and start with removing Slice and Dice. It is too OP ability, and it making all all other non-passive abilities to be ignored. And this is aswell, reason why rogues do okay dmg, as they can sustain 100% uptime on target (which is impossible in pvp). And do like no burst dmg outisde Cds.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Pridelock View Post
    Selective posts like this (where you ignore everything that a rogue has that most other classes dont have seems to me your just targetting specific abilities and actually ignoring the big picture.
    What do rogues have that other classes don't?

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Christan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Yeah, blizz has no idea how to fix rogues. But a random forum goer, like you, knows exactly what they need! Want a 1 shot button, while you're at it?
    correct me if i am wrong, but rogues have traditionally been about control rather than burst

    even had a lot of control added in, smoke bomb is a powerful utility, locking down a healer with gouge stuns disorient smoke bombs kicks etc
    group wide stealth is pretty impressive for setting the stage / figuring out which person on the other team to burst (still have to be fast but they will have no idea who to burst)

    no burst trinkets and no legendary daggers this tier? rogues were about burst damage for 1 tier.
    and now when things go back to normal and the good rogues still have amazing control,
    but some (i wanted to put in an expletive) rogues have no control, and their burst got taken away.

    ofc some people will whine.
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  14. #14
    Reroll another class, who wants rouges anyway.
    -=Z=- Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek! -=Z=-

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire
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    I've found that ultimatums rarely get you what you want from friends and family, let along people would could not care less about you. They've already said that they're not going to do sweeping class designs mid-season (5.1 is literally the halfway point in this PvP season). Wait until 5.2; new raid tier means new PvP season.

  16. #16
    so doing nothing to rogues and keeping their rating low as the solution ? nothing will change in 5.2 we all know that unless gc get fired and someone more competent is getting hired
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  17. #17
    Rogues are hard to balance. One wrong buff and they become OP as fuck like they were in cata. Rogue, through their mechanics themselves, have OP-ness built in.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhozul View Post
    I've found that ultimatums rarely get you what you want from friends and family, let along people would could not care less about you. They've already said that they're not going to do sweeping class designs mid-season (5.1 is literally the halfway point in this PvP season). Wait until 5.2; new raid tier means new PvP season.
    Who are you kidding? They now refuse to do sweeping class changes outside of expansion releases. This isn't TBC anymore where you can get 40 class changes in a patch. You want viability? You're dropping $40 on the next expansion for it.

    The entire Blizzard team, as a company, would sell their first born to be able to charge us for patches. The shift of major class changes into only expansion transition patches and having MoP be the second expansion in a row to have the first major patch devoid of any decent content outside of pug crap (Hell, no heroics even this time, just 3 shitty scenarios, more god damn dailies and a brawler's guild that no one will give a damn about in 1 month.), let alone a raiding tier is just more in the line of trying to sell any huge changes in 2 year intervals, while giving the scraps for our monthly fees. Don't expect to see a patch come along that solves Rogues issues, expect less and less each time, because it's what we're going to get.
    Last edited by Assumi; 2012-11-27 at 04:17 PM.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnmatrix View Post
    Rogues don't have 70% slow like the hero above me said. They can utilize a stronger slow via shiv, but the poison has been 50% since MoP pre-patch. Rogues overall took a huge overnerf. There was nothing wrong with their design and utility in 4.3. The only thing that went wrong was blizzards stupid idea that sub needs to be a pve spec and the damage just went over the top. Hemo should have never been buffed because it made rogues easy mode because of the retarded damage you could spam with just hemo. But blizzard is blizzard. They just don't know what they are doing.
    One other point I wanted to make here, is that our 4 piece PVP set bonus is that when we apply a non-lethal poison, we also apply crippling poison. Which means, that if we use crippling poison the 4 piece set bonus (minus the resilience bonus) has no effect. So a lot of rogues don't use crippling. Blizzard basically made it so we don't want to use crippling, in a way making that choice much less desirable.

    Honestly, I wish it would just have something like, "when you apply one of your non-lethal poisons, you have a chance to apply a random different non-lethal poison as well."

  20. #20
    That's your ultimatum? Don't make me laugh... I just made mine:
    Fix rogues or I leave game.
    I don't play WoW since end of the Cataclysm and don't want to go back, because of the stupid situation of rogues.

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