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  1. #1

    Should LFR use both loot systems?

    Just wanted to pass this by MMO-Champion before I attempt to post it on the official forums.

    When it comes to the loot system now used in LFR, I have some mixed feelings.

    On the one hand, it's nice not having any drama when it comes to loot. You don't have people fighting about who deserved items and who didn't, and that fact it's individual means everyone has a chance to win (or lose). On the other hand, LFR was usually so silent people just rolled anyways and moved on with little real drama, and the few times something dropped that other people already had, the one guy that didn't have it had an easier time claiming it rather then praying to the slot machine.

    So I ask, why not use both systems?

    The boss always drops three or four items randomly off his loot table. As a bonus, defeating the boss does a random slot roll to see if you win spec specific loot, and you can use a coin to have a second slot roll. In other words, you have three ways of possibly getting the loot, either off the boss rolling versus the other players, the slot roll just for you, and/or the bonus slot roll just for you.

    Would this be a bad idea? I don't really see a downside to it, personally. Gearing might go a bit faster, but is that really a bad thing?

  2. #2
    So you want 2 rolls instead of 1 (assuming you don't use a coin)? I don't see the justification for implementing that.

  3. #3
    I don't think people will suddenly grow up so we can go back to the old system. Blizzard likes the one now because nobody knows what dropped and can't get mad that "they lost a roll to some scrub or whatever." It's really not bad and sometimes you get really good rng.

  4. #4
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    I think I would agree with this, maybe though reduce the amount boss drops to two or three items. This is because with the old system you were bound to get something in the long run, while with the new system you have the same chance over and over. They also improved the need before greed system now that each item is role/spec based instead of class based, so it would lead to less ninja rolls as a result. Could also change the system somewhat, since most argument on this thread is with us knowing who wins and such. So maybe remove the ability to trade LFR items and remove the ability to see who wins the rolls.
    Last edited by Spl4sh3r; 2012-11-28 at 05:23 PM.

  5. #5
    and then everybody needs on those items even if they don't need them and everybody gets pissy. No the system is fine.

  6. #6
    Hell to the no I don't want the old LFR loot system back. If I wanted loot drops and someone else who already had the loot or just had the opportunity to roll need on it for a subjob they never played and rolled for it then in the end they would call out for a trade and if you dont have what they want then they vended it for 40 gold. If people only took what they needed then everyone could of had what they wanted much easier but once one person is an asshat then everyone has to be an asshat to get what they want.

    The system works perfectly now, I have a chance at loot I need and I pull down 1-3 pieces a week over 17 possible lfr bosses (sha and galleon included.)

  7. #7
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    No.

    And we had this discussion about 10 times before.

    LFR is hell as it is, people afk'ing left and right and other people not caring enough to kick them.

    I don't want the loot-drama back on top of that.
    Last edited by Maklor; 2012-11-28 at 05:25 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    So I ask, why not use both systems?
    1. Unnecessarily complicated and confusing having two loot systems.
    2. Group looting, in any form, was proven to be incompatible with the LFR environment in DS.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    So you want 2 rolls instead of 1 (assuming you don't use a coin)? I don't see the justification for implementing that.
    One is a personal roll, the other is a competition roll. Why is it so bad to have more then one roll? We had that back in the old loot system anyways, like when a boss dropped my token, a weapon, and a cloak I could use. I would have rolled "Need" on all of them, giving me three chances on a single boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinsoul View Post
    1. Unnecessarily complicated and confusing having two loot systems.
    2. Group looting, in any form, was proven to be incompatible with the LFR environment in DS.
    How is it complicated? The system we have now is so automatic you don't even do anything. The only looting that would take even a bit of consideration is the old system.

    I disagree that it was proven incompatible. 75% of my runs didn't even have loot drama, because everyone just killed the boss, rolled, then left. On the other hand, I got a few items only because everyone else in the LFR had the item already and passed it off to me. That is impossible in the new system.
    Last edited by Grocalis; 2012-11-28 at 05:27 PM.

  10. #10
    I really like LFR since the old system left and don't want to see it again. The amount of arguing and drama and vote kicking the guy that won what you wanted has gone down tremendously. In fact, the amount of vote kicking period has gone down to the point where I rarely see it unless someone is actively griefing, leading me to believe "Kick xxxx low dps" was really "Kick xxxx they are gonna roll on the same tier as me."

    No thanks.

  11. #11
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    @Grocalis we get your point, we just don't agree.

  12. #12
    The current system is fine.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    @Grocalis we get your point, we just don't agree.
    Maybe I just don't understand the downside to this. Maybe the fact I never really saw much in the way of loot drama while going through it on multiple characters back in DS is why I see no reason not to have both systems. I love some things about both loot systems, and I feel the few things I hate about both loot systems would be covered by having the two systems working together in tandem.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    I would have rolled "Need" on all of them...
    Thank you for pointing out exactly WHY competitive rolls in an LFR environment will never work. Everyone just rolled Need. Every time. If the button was lit, you clicked it. Didn't matter what the item was, if it was an upgrade, if you already had it, whatever. You'll just sort it out later. The ONLY way such a system could even come close to being compatible with the LFR format would be is all the gear had no vendor sell price, could not be DE'd, and was untradeable. Use it or destroy it. And even then you would get asshats who would roll just to take it away from someone who actually could use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    How is it complicated? The system we have now is so automatic you don't even do anything. The only looting that would take even a bit of consideration is the old system.
    Which is exactly why adding the old system back in on top of the current one would be unnecessarily complicated. The new system works fine. There is literally no functional advantage to the old system over the new. Unless you were gaming the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    I disagree that it was proven incompatible. 75% of my runs didn't even have loot drama, because everyone just killed the boss, rolled, then left. On the other hand, I got a few items only because everyone else in the LFR had the item already and passed it off to me. That is impossible in the new system.
    See my response above. I am glad you were so lucky that you had genuinely good experiences with the old LFR loot system. You are a huge minority. Most others, including myself, have had to deal with way too many bad experiences under the old LFR system to ever want it or anything remotely close to it back. It was too easy to abuse, in multiple ways.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    One is a personal roll, the other is a competition roll. Why is it so bad to have more then one roll? We had that back in the old loot system anyways, like when a boss dropped my token, a weapon, and a cloak I could use. I would have rolled "Need" on all of them, giving me three chances on a single boss.
    I don't think it's necesarily "bad". I just don't think there is a need for additional loot rolls in LFR.

    Are you trying to say that there is a problem where it takes too long to get geared up now, so you need to gear faster through LFR? Because that seems to be the end result of your suggestion, right? Or am I missing something?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    The boss always drops three or four items randomly off his loot table. As a bonus, defeating the boss does a random slot roll to see if you win spec specific loot, and you can use a coin to have a second slot roll. In other words, you have three ways of possibly getting the loot, either off the boss rolling versus the other players, the slot roll just for you, and/or the bonus slot roll just for you.
    Explain how this fixes anything (not that anything is broken....)?

    Guy A (who already has the item) rolls 'Need', my two personal rolls give me nothing. Guy A wins the item.

    I'm now pissed at a guy thanks to your system instead of being annoyed by RNG.

    I simply don't understand people who keep trying to fix random!

    It is what is it, accept that sometimes you won't get loot, and if you do you'll know you were lucky you got something, not lucky someone else was nice enough NOT to click 'NEED' on something they already had.
    Last edited by Mooboy; 2012-11-28 at 05:46 PM.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

  17. #17
    Good point Gurbz, I can see what you mean in those regards.

    Fact is, I am fine with how the system works right now. I just think it could be better. I am a proponent of more loot chances for time invested, and while the old system had flaws, I noticed among my friends loot seemed to come to them more quickly in the old system over the new one. One person recently complained about nearly 30 bosses down without a single item. It's just nice to have other possible options to attain the gear.

    I never got angry when someone beat me on a roll, but I sure had a great day when that guy who won that shoulder tier token decided to trade it to me because I needed it more then him in the end. It's those moments I kind of miss. Rare, yes, but it was nice rather then just hoping for a slot machine and nothing else.

    Maybe I just have to accept this is me wanting the cake and eating it too.
    Last edited by Grocalis; 2012-11-28 at 05:52 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    It's just nice to have other possible options to attain the gear.
    You mean like valor gear, regular raids, crafted gear? LFR is not the only way to gear.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    The loot drama was nuts. I'd rather just stick with this one. Unfortunately the new system looks bad, since if you don't win you never see loot but in the old system, the number of times I saw someone roll for an item they already had the normal version of was insane.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    You mean like valor gear, regular raids, crafted gear? LFR is not the only way to gear.
    Maybe I should have been more specific, but "attain the LFR gear". Crafted and Valor gear is nice, but I am speaking specifically about gear you can gain from LFR, like the low end tier. I don't do normal raids at all for personal reasons.

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