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  1. #1

    Resto weapon enchant..

    So I finally got a new weapon (one from hof) and I'm wondering how many of you are using the new Jade Serpent enchant. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=104427#comments I have read some post where healers were saying heart song is better. Since my old weapon was only 463 I was running heart song on it and still having mana problems from time to time. Trying to decide if I should stick with Heart or try out the Jade

  2. #2
    stick with heart. far as I have read it's better than windsong. (~50% uptime vs jades 20%) mana probs I would argue are more playstyle than lack of spirit. I'm making this point by only raiding with 5k spirit buffed and so far have had 0 mana probs on any fight. 10 or 25man. Are you using totemic recall glyph? that right there is about 100k mana saved on every fight.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Jesmam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jynus View Post
    Are you using totemic recall glyph? that right there is about 100k mana saved on every fight.
    How is that?? Would you just use TR everytime let's say your Healing Stream Totem is at 0sec and ready to despawn? Or have I been missing something very vital piece of information? o.O
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  4. #4
    it's our best glyph by far. good enough that I consider it the only mandatory glyph on every fight. you use it right before your elementals and HST are about to despawn. 100k saved every fight easy. prob closer to 200k on longer fights.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Jesmam's Avatar
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    That is, I have to say..... AWESOME! :P I'll have to start using it immediately.
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  6. #6
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jynus View Post
    stick with heart. far as I have read it's better than windsong..
    I would say Windsong is superior. Roughly the same uptime as Heartsong (~60%), but where Heartsong gives 200 spirit, Windsong gives 1500 haste/crit/mastery. I'm not generally a fan of throughput procs, but when the uptime is that high and you get seven times (!) as much benefit, it seems like the better choice. Jade Spirit by comparison is pretty meh, as it has a much lower uptime and you won't benefit from the spirit proc very often. And for throughput procs as a healer, uptime is everything.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    I would say Windsong is superior. Roughly the same uptime as Heartsong (~60%), but where Heartsong gives 200 spirit, Windsong gives 1500 haste/crit/mastery. I'm not generally a fan of throughput procs, but when the uptime is that high and you get seven times (!) as much benefit, it seems like the better choice. Jade Spirit by comparison is pretty meh, as it has a much lower uptime and you won't benefit from the spirit proc very often. And for throughput procs as a healer, uptime is everything.
    Not only that but I've seen my Windsong double proc (mastery and haste at the same time) which I'm pretty sure Heartsong can't. Pretty sure if it can double proc it can triple but I've not noticed it yet.

    As from TR glyph, been using it for about a week and love it. Free HST totem every 15 secs, f-ing excellent

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jynus View Post
    it's our best glyph by far. good enough that I consider it the only mandatory glyph on every fight. you use it right before your elementals and HST are about to despawn. 100k saved every fight easy. prob closer to 200k on longer fights.
    What about totemic recall triggering GCD? I really doubt "it's our best glyph by far"...
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  9. #9
    Thanks for your help guys. I will look into the windsong.
    As for TR. I was not a fan when I tried it on the beta. Maybe I will give it a try again.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 07:44 AM ----------

    As for only running 5k spirit (after buffs) I find it hard to believe some one can run 10man content and still put up good numbers. I'm not calling you a lierer it's just hard for me to figure out how. Unles your getting fed mana from druid's, shadow priest ect. Or maybe TR is that OP. I guess I need to look into it some more.

  10. #10
    jade spirit is pretty good, and for me clearly beats windsong, as it offers similar throughput, and a manareg component as soon as u are below 75 k mana, which will happen in every fight several times. Heartsong is def. the worst weaponenchant nowadays, as it only gives unnoticable minor mana regen.

    And i really want to see a resto shaman healing at garalon 10s with 5 k spirit. I bet i would beat this restoshaman as enhancement in healing.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holofernes View Post
    And i really want to see a resto shaman healing at garalon 10s with 5 k spirit.
    Yeah... it just seems so unbelievable. I mean, now that I have around 11k spirit unbuffed, I'm starting to feel comfortable. I can't imagine having less than that ever again. Especially on 2-healed encounters, I'm happy about every ounce of mana that I can get my greedy little fingers on.

    Now I just need to decide which enchant to get as soon as I wrestled a weapon out of a boss. They refuse to drop any. People get them from their loot rolls... and I've been very unlucky with those rolls so far *hangs head*
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    Now I just need to decide which enchant to get as soon as I wrestled a weapon out of a boss. They refuse to drop any. People get them from their loot rolls... and I've been very unlucky with those rolls so far *hangs head*
    I got my Sha weapon yesterday in LFR with my bonus roll. I then used a bonus roll in our normal 10man raid on the last boss in MV and ended up with the weapon from there.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Holofernes View Post
    jade spirit is pretty good, and for me clearly beats windsong, as it offers similar throughput, and a manareg component as soon as u are below 75 k mana, which will happen in every fight several times. Heartsong is def. the worst weaponenchant nowadays, as it only gives unnoticable minor mana regen.

    And i really want to see a resto shaman healing at garalon 10s with 5 k spirit. I bet i would beat this restoshaman as enhancement in healing.
    3healed it with 0 problems and got the kill. (healers were kiters, otherwise we would prob 2heal it)

    5healed it 25man with 0 probs too. was 90k+ hps most every attempt. Few 100k +. Though granted we ran into either enrage timer or kite transitions being poor. (extra crushed or swaps not going off till 25+ and healing just fell to far behind)

    I've been told 5k is not possible so many times it's laughable, and yet I'm easily able to do top parse hps on most any fight and have yet to have any mana probs. The debate gets old. playstyle > mana.

    To the OP, I had a brain fart. Windsong > all right now. Thats what I thought u were talking about. Not heartsong.

  14. #14
    Thanks for your input Jynus. I'm trying to figure out how I can get better so I pulled up your logs. I see you raid 25man along with 2 other sham. They both have over 9k (9774, 9311)spirit and your right at 5k before buffs . I'm not sure if it makes a difference that you have 3 mana tides going or not. Maybe it does since there your mana battery. Im just not sure if I can pull it off in 10man. Either way ty for the Glyph idea. It will give me some thing to work with.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Jynus;19113415 5healed it 25man with 0 probs too. was 90k+ hps most every attempt. Few 100k +. Though granted we ran into either enrage timer or kite transitions being poor. (extra crushed or swaps not going off till 25+ and healing just fell to far behind).[/QUOTE]

    Do you have any l ogs for this? I'd love to see how your managing mana. I've been trying to use less and less spirit but I am not good enough to run with only 5k.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by rmlunsford View Post
    Do you have any l ogs for this? I'd love to see how your managing mana. I've been trying to use less and less spirit but I am not good enough to run with only 5k.
    Our guilds logs are public. Feel free to check em over. Far as I know I'm the only Jynus really on armoury so I'm easy to find. I also have the current #4 Elgalon 25man parse through another guildly logging under a different guild name so you can find more logs that way. That said, a few points.

    1) I'm not a core raider for my guild. Used to be, but I'm casual now and am just filling in as we are short. So I have leeway in doing things like purposely gimping myself (yes, gimp. i'm not 5k cause i think it's optimal) in order to prove points about how resto shaman can be played. I'm also not present on a fair bit of parses because of this.

    2) I'm not fed juicy healing assignments in order to inflate numbers or to make myself look better. Nor am I being fed mana CD's (palies get them as they need the mana more than I do) Nor to I slack during downtime in order to have mana for burst by other heals picking up the slack. I am pretty much constantly casting if needed. As you can see on most any parse most our heal team is decently close, and not cases of top parsing healers blowing others out of the water by trying for records...

    3) I still make tons of mistakes, so take what I say and do with a grain of salt. I took all of cata off and still have yet to really find my grove, so it can be a case of do what I say, and not what I do at times, lol.

    4) As was mentioned before, I'm running with 2 other shaman. Now since my spirit is so low, me + 1 of the others is the equivalent of 1 shaman in some guilds. So I don't consider running a 2 shaman with high spirit heal team too out of the ordinary for 25man. But I won't deny that it's a decent boost to mana. If 1 of those Shaman were dropped I can't say for sure how much harder it would be, so it's a consideration to take what I say with some salt.

    5) I have tailoring spirit cloak enchant, and 2 spirit proc trinkets so my 5k buffed spirit isn't a hard 5k base spirit. (I use int food and flask) But I almost consider this a moot point as every resto shaman should have these regardless as base items/enchants.

    6) Havn't done hard modes. I get that healing is a lot more intensive for them. So I can't speak from a position of authority on that things will work for them as well by having low spirit. For all I know I would very well need to add another 3-5k for them.

    Now for the meat. I'm NOT running 5k cause I think thats the optimal number. I'm running it because it's to try and get the idea that mana probs and hps numbers is a playstyle issue first, and spirit issue second. Basically it's a take on the a good healer can gem full parry and still put up respectable numbers idea. I'm trying to counter the idea that we must stack spirit to the moon in order to have the mana for all the burst healing we do. Instead I'm trying to say if you stack throughput to the moon, you don't need near as much mana to handle burst. The 5000 points of spirit I'm not using is a LOT of secondary stats I'm able to instead put into mastery and crit and do the same healing with less casts. So what I do in point form.

    1) Crit is almost as valuable as spirit for mp5. 1 point of crit is about ~70% as effective as a point of spirit. so instead of 5000 points of spirit, I can instead put 5000 points of crit and it's a BIG throughput increase, at the cost of ~1500 spirit worth of mp5 only. So you get a big hps increase at a small mp5 loss.

    2) Mastery is still full valuable past 50%. It's our best throughput stat always as long as you're healing people below breakpoints a lot. What this means is during fights where you don't have to worry about burst, just stick with a very simply spell priority of HST > HW > Riptide. During Will for example I only really need these 3 spells during non mists periods, (with the odd HS or possibly HR save) do VERY respectable hps from being so heavily statted into throughput, and GAIN mana at the same time as it's mana positive from being so cheap to cast. And because a lot of fights are designed to have periods of huge burst, having say 60-70% mastery means I do a HUGE amount of hps from 1 HR that would require more casting to heal the same amount had I instead had spirit stacked, or even crit seeing as it's random burst. This again plays into having on demand burst when it's needed, and then smart cheap casting when it's not.

    3) Totemic recall. Look at my parses. HST is always a huge contributor to my hps numbers. And because of this glyph, it's FREE healing. In addition, Elementals are 2-3 min per fight of 10% increase in healing, also free. Yes they cost GCD's, but I mean, you save like 100-200k mana at the cost of like 6-12 GCD over a 6-10min fight. how can you make any argument that it's not worth it? How much spirit do you need to regen 200k mana over 10min? Think about it, thats spirit you can now put into mastery. If HST is about to expire during a period of burst, then let it and use the GCD for more healing. so what if you can't recall every one. Long as you get most, you're swimming in mana from it and doing a ton of free healing to boot.

    4) This is the tricky one as there is no right answer, but learn the encounters inside out. If you look at my parses, specially on elgalon as we were learning them, you'll see a trend of my hps sucking ass a lot in the first dozen attempts, then slowly going higher and higher and higher. This is from learning the fight. In the old days, it was simple. Blast out Chain heal non stop from start to end on whoever was lowest hp. (well, sightly more complicated, but you get the idea) Even in cata from what I hear it was drop HR, keep riptide on CD and chain spam by the end. Basic simple stuff you do over and over throughout the fight with little change. Now the game has changed a ton. A lot of our healing it tied into CD's, and timed healing bursts. So you need to know the fight, and then you need to know how our CD's tie into the fights burst healing periods. In addition, you also have to time it with your other healers CD's. If done right, you're part of a team that each plays a part when needed to deal with encounter. For example, On garalon, we do a 6 stomp rotation, I'm responsible for 1 and 5. And for them, I have my elementals ready to pop, and CD's all ready to blast out. I'll do insane spike hps, and the rest of the healers hold back as they know I have it covered. Likewise, on the other stomps, it's just a UE powered HR, and possibly a riptided CH on melee, as I know the other healers are blasting out their CD's. So I'm able to conserve mana by not needing to go all out. Now this changes a bit in 10man 2healing. But the healing requirements are so much less that when I've done it, i'm finding cheap spells keep up with most everything where I'm not even needed to use my CD's outside of emergency situations.

    5) To go into the above, try to be preemptive and smart. UE -> HR is a nice hps boost, and if timed right and placed right, you don't really need to do much past that and can just HW from there. For Acendance, its AMAZING good, almost as good as HTT. Pop your elemental, Riptide > UE > HR > pop ascendence > Chain spam on riptide target. You have 4 gcd's on setup, that you time with the burst damage of the boss. Thats the tricky part and ties into knowing the fight as a core need. But you get a monster hps burst thats a CD all on it's own that can keep and entire raid alive with ease. But pop ascendance late or don't set it up properly with the boss burst, and you waste a big chunk of hps that costs you the same mana.

    I'm sure I can think of more, but thats enough rambling for today. prob the most important part to takeaway is learn the fights inside out, and in conjunction with your raid and other healers, decide how best to use your CD's to give you the most hps burst with the least mana.
    Last edited by Jynus; 2012-11-15 at 11:26 PM.

  17. #17
    This will probably get me infracted or whatever its called these days but awwwwwwwwww well.

    But Jynus waving your I got logged in 25 man normals on easy bosses dick around isn't impressive and you don't need to put in every post you put that "I run 5k spirit i got logged."

    You will get absolutely destroyed in fight that requires more than you just doing healing rain, stream and popping cds during a entire fight to keep a raid up (that's not really healing is it and yes I have looked at the logs.) Also saying the glyph is mandatory is a bit of a stretch you are healing normals you have alot more time to sit around maybe go for a coffee in town come back and raid is still alive doing boss.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Spongy View Post
    This will probably get me infracted or whatever its called these days but awwwwwwwwww well.

    But Jynus waving your I got logged in 25 man normals on easy bosses dick around isn't impressive and you don't need to put in every post you put that "I run 5k spirit i got logged."

    You will get absolutely destroyed in fight that requires more than you just doing healing rain, stream and popping cds during a entire fight to keep a raid up (that's not really healing is it and yes I have looked at the logs.) Also saying the glyph is mandatory is a bit of a stretch you are healing normals you have alot more time to sit around maybe go for a coffee in town come back and raid is still alive doing boss.
    You're contradicting yourself. You're saying getting high hps parses on normals is nothing, just wait till heroics when you need to do high hps, you'll get killed then...

    Well which is it? If I can do very high numbers of hps for full length fights, why would anything change for heroic content? Is my HR suddenly gonna be 'zomg, this is heroic, i'm scurred, I'm not gonna do normal output?'.

    Let me ask you this, what healing feat do I need to do in order for you to consider what I'm saying is not just spin? 5heal garalon? do a 25man heroic kill? if so what kill? etc etc. Cause so far every time I kill something I was previously told was impossible to do, I'm then being told 'ya well that doesn't count, now you need to try this'. It's amusing to say the least.

    edit: on further consideration, I feel your point about I'm doing normal mode only strengthens my point. How many noob players in here ask for tips as they are struggling on normal mode bosses? How many times are the recomendations around more spirit? Or focusing on stats? Most are. you once in a while see someone break it down and note that Cd usage is wonky and whatnot. But the focus most of the time is on regen for new players for normal modes. (I would actually put money on you being hypocritical right here as I'm sure you've given the exact same advice to newbs) so if this is the case, then why are you on here saying spirit doesn't matter for normal modes? Again it's a contradiction for the new player who does normals constantly being told MORE SPIRIT!! RAWWRR IT'S OUR BEST STAT!!!.. You're in essence agreeing with me on low spirit being fine and the need to look at playstyle if you're doing normals..
    Last edited by Jynus; 2012-11-16 at 01:39 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jynus View Post
    You're contradicting yourself. You're saying getting high hps parses on normals is nothing, just wait till heroics when you need to do high hps, you'll get killed then...

    Well which is it? If I can do very high numbers of hps for full length fights, why would anything change for heroic content? Is my HR suddenly gonna be 'zomg, this is heroic, i'm scurred, I'm not gonna do normal output?'.

    Let me ask you this, what healing feat do I need to do in order for you to consider what I'm saying is not just spin? 5heal garalon? do a 25man heroic kill? if so what kill? etc etc. Cause so far every time I kill something I was previously told was impossible to do, I'm then being told 'ya well that doesn't count, now you need to try this'. It's amusing to say the least.

    edit: on further consideration, I feel your point about I'm doing normal mode only strengthens my point. How many noob players in here ask for tips as they are struggling on normal mode bosses? How many times are the recomendations around more spirit? Or focusing on stats? Most are. you once in a while see someone break it down and note that Cd usage is wonky and whatnot. But the focus most of the time is on regen for new players for normal modes. (I would actually put money on you being hypocritical right here as I'm sure you've given the exact same advice to newbs) so if this is the case, then why are you on here saying spirit doesn't matter for normal modes? Again it's a contradiction for the new player who does normals constantly being told MORE SPIRIT!! RAWWRR IT'S OUR BEST STAT!!!.. You're in essence agreeing with me on low spirit being fine and the need to look at playstyle if you're doing normals..
    His points are valid. All you're doing is dropping totems and recalling and using healing rain with the odd riptide. In hard fights where you're actually required to cast more healing abilities you're going to get stomped.

  20. #20
    Well, it obviously works for him(Jynus)...I can see his points on sacking some spirit for more mastery/crit...when you add in trinket procs, food buff, flask, spirit would probably be well above 10k most of the time...and with the extra crit and recall glyph, it makes up for that lost spirit and gives you an hps boost as well.

    If my guild doesn't start on hard modes next week I'm going to give your set-up a try. I'm doing 10 mans, so obviously my HR wont be as effective as it is for a 25m shaman but I still think I would see an hps increase, if anything.

    Or maybe it will suck and I'll go back to my normal set-up. Either way, I do appreciate someone thinking outside the box and trying something different.

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