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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by v6Max View Post
    Have them deliver a high amount of healing to give us that AoE burst we need.
    You do realize you get around 200-250k healing for only 6k mana right? It doesn't look like a lot because it's small to each person, but if you do a single burst and check your meter you will be surprised.

    Shrooms are just as good as Wild Growth. The trade off is wild growth is smart and has range but costs 2x more, shrooms are short range, not smart, have a worse setup and are cheaper. Same healing done per person (with my gear it's about 25k unbuffed).
    Last edited by Maxvla; 2012-11-29 at 06:10 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by v6Max View Post
    Not the only one no - but I'm not surprised there's nothing. Fortunately they did find time to add more dailies, changes to Pet Battles, new scenarios, a new item upgrade system which will give us something to do whilst we watch shaman, monks, holy paladins taking our place in raids.
    Cause ya know, the teams behind class balance also do all the quests, scenarios, item work, and other things you listed. That has to be it.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    You do realize you get around 200-250k healing for only 6k mana right? It doesn't look like a lot because it's small to each person, but if you do a single burst and check your meter you will be surprised.

    Shrooms are just as good as Wild Growth. The trade off is wild growth is smart and has range but costs 2x more, shrooms are short range, not smart, have a worse setup and are cheaper. Same healing done per person (with my gear it's about 25k unbuffed).
    Same healing at full effect != same healing in given amount of time = hps

    I'd rather WG and cast a rejuv or two than waste the 4 gcds to set up shrooms

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrr View Post
    We do bring some utility yes, but all of it is only "nice to have" and not a "must have". Compared to the encounter-trivializing spells Paladins and Disc Priests bring, it doesn't look all that appealing. As for burst healing, I'm not sure what you're referring to. All we have is Tranquility on a 3 minute timer and it is inferior at the moment to a Shaman's Healing Tide Totem.
    What your missing is that Resto really can shine on a fight that is in between 2 and 3 healers. With a prepot and some creative use of cd's HotW can burst upwards of 80k dps for the first 45 seconds of a fight, which is not an insignificant number. If the fight is a '2.5 healer' fight, which I agree a lot are, using your restos hybrid abilities can actually make the fight a lot easier. We are the lowest throughput healing class right now, but don't discount the extra dps we can bring to a fight your group may be struggling with an enrage timer on, or the value of speeding up the kill in terms of resource management. I heal with a monk and a disc priest, and there is no way I'm going to out heal either of them, but I don't feel like I don't bring value, it's just a matter of finding where you can add the value.

    This applies to 10-m more than 25-m of course.
    Last edited by ganush; 2012-11-29 at 06:24 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    You do realize you get around 200-250k healing for only 6k mana right? It doesn't look like a lot because it's small to each person, but if you do a single burst and check your meter you will be surprised.
    Fairly certain shrooms are aoe capped to DR past 6 targets like most aoe effects that don't specify # of targets. That would put their healing more in the 100-150k range depending on gear. Which is still very mana efficient, its just that the actual amount healed per target is relatively low (compared to max hp of players) that it feels like a lot of set up for not much oomf.

    I still find ways to use them, mostly as nourish replacement (something to do in lulls between SM and WG cd's and CC procs) but i dunno, i'd rather have a longer cd for a bigger heal or just something to spice them up or make the reward worth the effort.
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2012-11-29 at 09:02 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ganush View Post
    What your missing is that Resto really can shine on a fight that is in between 2 and 3 healers. With a prepot and some creative use of cd's HotW can burst upwards of 80k dps for the first 45 seconds of a fight, which is not an insignificant number. If the fight is a '2.5 healer' fight, which I agree a lot are, using your restos hybrid abilities can actually make the fight a lot easier. We are the lowest throughput healing class right now, but don't discount the extra dps we can bring to a fight your group may be struggling with an enrage timer on, or the value of speeding up the kill in terms of resource management. I heal with a monk and a disc priest, and there is no way I'm going to out heal either of them, but I don't feel like I don't bring value, it's just a matter of finding where you can add the value.

    This applies to 10-m more than 25-m of course.
    The problem here is that you don't really need the DPS in the first place in those fights. The only exception I've seen in this tier so far was Gara'jal HC where every bit of dps mattered.

    Maybe Garalon 10 if you're completely lacking cleaving melees who really shine on that boss. Talking about 10 mans too.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 01:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    You do realize you get around 200-250k healing for only 6k mana right? It doesn't look like a lot because it's small to each person, but if you do a single burst and check your meter you will be surprised.

    Shrooms are just as good as Wild Growth. The trade off is wild growth is smart and has range but costs 2x more, shrooms are short range, not smart, have a worse setup and are cheaper. Same healing done per person (with my gear it's about 25k unbuffed).
    For me it's a practicality issue rather than the actual numbers. You can only hit every person in the raid when they're stacked tight and in most fights, this only happens in the final phase where there's a ton of damage going out where Shrooms just don't do enough healing. I'm not going to be spending 3 GCDs putting them down on Elegon and Amber Shaper HC burn phases or any time in Gara'jal even though the raid is stacked.

    Ideally, I'd use it on fights like Will HC where it's a constant but slow raid damage that's not going to kill you anytime soon but again, in a 10 man, people are usually spread out all the time.

    It just feels like there are much better spells to use 90% of the time.
    Ashr

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Same healing at full effect != same healing in given amount of time = hps

    I'd rather WG and cast a rejuv or two than waste the 4 gcds to set up shrooms
    Then you are missing the point of the spell. It's extremely efficient healing, but with a long setup time. It's also something you can do that IS aoe between your WG/SM cooldowns. I use it on many fights now, but especially on fights like first of the spirit kings and heroic emperors.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 07:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    Fairly certain shrooms are aoe capped to DR past 6 targets like most aoe effects that don't specify # of targets. That would put their healing more in the 100-150k range depending on gear. Which is still very mana efficient, its just that the actual amount healed per target is relatively low (compared to max hp of players) that it feels like a lot of set up for not much oomf.

    I still find ways to use them, mostly as nourish replacement (something to do in lulls between SM and WG cd's and CC procs) but i dunno, i'd rather have a longer cd for a bigger heal or just something to spice them up or make the reward worth the effort.
    I know they DR. I was quoting from raid experience where I had cast a single bloom and it healed ~200k total on 10 targets. (specifically from a spirit kings heroic pull -> reset instantly when wrong king next...)

  8. #28
    Speaking from a 25 man perspective

    Druids are in an okay position right now - definitely in need of some kind of attention, but still hanging in there. We're like a monk with less burst healing.

    Let's see.. Our utility lacks when compared to other healing classes (with the exception of a monk perhaps - which has roughly as much). Ironbark - a less powerful version of pain suppresion - and our moderately superior heal-while-moving capabilities are about as far as our utility department goes.. And no, I'm not going to include battle rez. Symbiosis is rarely helpful to others outside of PvP (most of the time I cast it on a shaman anyway, for spiritwalker's grace).

    The way I see it, we could have either another utility spell, or improved burst healing without being considered overpowered at all.

    What do I mean by lack of burst healing? Well, other healing classes have some kind of AoE heal mana-dump that is capable of widespread and large, direct AoE healing at a hefty mana cost. The resto druid equivalent of bombing raid heals is rejuv blanketing* and using WG/SM on cooldown - it often doesn't match up, particularly in a 25 man setting. Our HoTs are often sniped by other healers' direct area heals. And then we've got tranquility, which is no doubt a good raid cooldown - but on a 3 minute cooldown, and then it only heals 5 targets at a time every 2 seconds, which most of the time isn't a problem, but isn't ideal for at least a few fights (heroic grand empress comes to mind).

    This brings me to Mushroom blooms. Yes, they're very efficient, but the healing is still quite insignificant because of its [200k?] or so healing cap, and they must be placed during a lull/halt in raid damage in order to prove useful (with the exception of heroic will perhaps). They are awkward, have a tiny range, and could use some kind of clever tweaking. In my mind, this could be the answer to our burst healing issue.


    All that said, our healing numbers are still respectable on a lot of encounters. It will never be on top for the time being *cough* disc priests are overpowered *cough* as made apparent by world of logs, however it is competitive with shaman/paladins and now even monks on several boss fights.
    Last edited by Scouse; 2012-11-30 at 11:53 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    Then you are missing the point of the spell. It's extremely efficient healing, but with a long setup time. It's also something you can do that IS aoe between your WG/SM cooldowns. I use it on many fights now, but especially on fights like first of the spirit kings and heroic emperors.
    No, I understand the point of the spell, but it's still largely worthless beyond trying to pad numbers from a 25-man perspective due to the huge DR that has been mentioned. Mana regen hasn't been much of an issue even with full dungeon gear and now that I have the 2-set, I've largely forgotten I have shrooms.

  10. #30
    I agree with the burst healing mana dump, its somethign we really lack.. rejuv blanket just isnt the same

  11. #31
    I don't agree tbh, right now resto druids are good strong; as always they've been (not including monks; whose supposed nerf* didn't change much). You may have an issue with mana which prevents putting out spells. The only thing that may need a work is our mushrooms; they should be changed to [heals a total of druid's health when 5+ppl are affected...etc], so that it'll have the same functionality for 10mans. Other than that, around 480-485 ilvl; base spirit from gear's so crazy, you don't need any reforging.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by zegyra View Post
    I don't agree tbh, right now resto druids are good strong; as always they've been (not including monks; whose supposed nerf* didn't change much). You may have an issue with mana which prevents putting out spells. The only thing that may need a work is our mushrooms; they should be changed to [heals a total of druid's health when 5+ppl are affected...etc], so that it'll have the same functionality for 10mans. Other than that, around 480-485 ilvl; base spirit from gear's so crazy, you don't need any reforging.
    Strong? How is your progress? Asking because it's at the heroic modes you will feel how bad you really are compared to other healers.

    My progress is currently 6/6 MV 5/6 HoF, and I can feel how I am falling more and more behind the other healers even if I have same gearlevel. It's embarassing.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by skmzarn View Post
    Strong? How is your progress? Asking because it's at the heroic modes you will feel how bad you really are compared to other healers.

    My progress is currently 6/6 MV 5/6 HoF, and I can feel how I am falling more and more behind the other healers even if I have same gearlevel. It's embarassing.
    Totally agree with this guy. It's tier I'm so far behind I'm kinda waiting for the message can u reroll monk...
    I'm not even close to our pally on 90% of the fights and the disc again just out does me while screwing my healing up too. I can sometimes keep up with shaman providing we don't stack, cos he just brings out healing rain and I have no way of doing it.

    Speaking from a guild progressing heroics, I can totally see why they prefer to bring the other healers over me. I offer less healing, less CDs and if I try a keep up with them I'm omm

  14. #34
    Well, I think I was using my resto druid to a full potential(I was 1st on healing on almost every fight) but then I rerolled. Druids will come closer to monks with the latest nerfs, but will still not heal as much as a monk so I don't get resto druids who don't go balance or reroll, monks are simply better resto druids.

    About utility.. Druids have better direct heals than they used to; but I prefer enveloping mist over regrowth. Stampeding roar and tranquility are good utility skills but a balance druid can bring the same cds to the table. Some people here mentioned HOTW and dpsing for tight enrage fights...a monk can simply do damage the whole fight instead of just 45 secs so..
    Last edited by Rorschachs; 2012-12-04 at 01:25 PM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    Well, I think I was using my resto druid to a full potential(I was 1st on healing on almost every fight) but then I rerolled. Druids will come closer to monks with the latest nerfs, but will still not heal as much as a monk so I don't get resto druids who don't go balance or reroll, monks are simply better resto druids.
    I see your point and when you talk about being first on healing meters, did you rank on WoL? Or is it just you doing well compared to the other healers?
    Even if druids might not be as good compared to other healers I see no reason to reroll.
    We are still not horrible, and on some fights we are really good. So just rerolling for the sake of doing better on meters is something I personally think is not worth it. But then again I play in a casual guild. And we are not struggling on fights because I'm playing a Resto Druid.
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  16. #36
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    I have never felt this useless since I started playing Resto druid. I started in the middle of WOTLK expansion. Okay, we might not be totally useless, but we are in no way competitive with healers on the same gearlevel. Other healing classes with worse gear can easily outheal us with not too much effort.

    I am saying "useless" because there is simply no reason at all to bring a resto druid right now. Any other healingclass will bring better utilities. We do okay healing, I guess, but it's just raw healing, and very often it's just overhealed by sniping/shielding paladins, and shielding priests etc. How often will your rejuvenations hold for its total duration without getting sniped? Ever? Or how often will it even get half its duration? That's rare.

    I'd suggest we still have same spells, but they could be adjusted. Rejuvenation could maybe just hold for couple of seconds, but heal for so much more, and of course cost more mana if it's needed. There are alot of things that should be looked at really. Check also logs from other healing classes how much mana they get back from their different abilities. We get least mana back as well. We only have Innervate, nothing else whatsoever. I'd suggest it should depend on spirit once again. That would make spirit more valuable and more interesting to stack, and for a good reason.

    And of course, the laughable mushrooms... I don't even need to comment on them. Make them into a cooldown on 30 seconds and let them burstheal for as much as it could be worth a 30 sec cd.

    Edit: Wow, did I just write that? I sound ..abit ..bitter.. >_<
    Last edited by skmzarn; 2012-12-04 at 05:31 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by skmzarn View Post
    I have never felt this useless since I started playing Resto druid. I started in the middle of WOTLK expansion. Okay, we might not be totally useless, but we are in no way competitive with healers on the same gearlevel. Other healing classes with worse gear can easily outheal us with not too much effort.

    I am saying "useless" because there is simply no reason at all to bring a resto druid right now. Any other healingclass will bring better utilities. We do okay healing, I guess, but it's just raw healing, and very often it's just overhealed by sniping/shielding paladins, and shielding priests etc. How often will your rejuvenations hold for its total duration without getting sniped? Ever? Or how often will it even get half its duration? That's rare.

    I'd suggest we still have same spells, but they could be adjusted. Rejuvenation could maybe just hold for couple of seconds, but heal for so much more, and of course cost more mana if it's needed. There are alot of things that should be looked at really. Check also logs from other healing classes how much mana they get back from their different abilities. We get least mana back as well. We only have Innervate, nothing else whatsoever. I'd suggest it should depend on spirit once again. That would make spirit more valuable and more interesting to stack, and for a good reason.

    And of course, the laughable mushrooms... I don't even need to comment on them. Make them into a cooldown on 30 seconds and let them burstheal for as much as it could be worth a 30 sec cd.

    Edit: Wow, did I just write that? I sound ..abit ..bitter.. >_<
    Tsulong night phase has been the only fight I'm glad I was a resto druid, but we're still weaker compared to all other healers in day phase.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by skmzarn View Post
    And of course, the laughable mushrooms... I don't even need to comment on them. Make them into a cooldown on 30 seconds and let them burstheal for as much as it could be worth a 30 sec cd.
    Yeah, I agree. Mushrooms should have a wow factor. Bliz says they don't want us to use rotationally but I think it should be good enough that if the raid is somewhat stacked, it's worth using rotationally.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Drefzor View Post
    I see your point and when you talk about being first on healing meters, did you rank on WoL? Or is it just you doing well compared to the other healers?
    Even if druids might not be as good compared to other healers I see no reason to reroll.
    We are still not horrible, and on some fights we are really good. So just rerolling for the sake of doing better on meters is something I personally think is not worth it. But then again I play in a casual guild. And we are not struggling on fights because I'm playing a Resto Druid.
    I ranked on wol, I was constantly ranking on wol with my druid. The reason for me to reroll wasn't about meters, I just thought I could bring more to the table and help with progress better with any other healer.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drefzor View Post
    I see your point and when you talk about being first on healing meters, did you rank on WoL? Or is it just you doing well compared to the other healers?
    Even if druids might not be as good compared to other healers I see no reason to reroll.
    We are still not horrible, and on some fights we are really good. So just rerolling for the sake of doing better on meters is something I personally think is not worth it. But then again I play in a casual guild. And we are not struggling on fights because I'm playing a Resto Druid.
    It's not rerolling to maximize hps. In a raid, hps matters, but so does CDs, synergy, regen, and niches. WoL means little in looking where classes stand. Majority of WoL ranking after the bosses are on farm are either gimmicky to push someones hps as high as they can, or people will just be high because they are outgearing/farming content and they can drop healers making hps skyrocket.

    WoL ranking is good to see averages. If one fight all top 20 are holy priests, you can see that they are powerful on that fight....for hps. In the past we have been able to easily top and rank WoL while being almost useless for the fight outside of pure hps.

    A lot of hardcore raiding druids are rerolling because they can play another class as well as their druid, or even less skilled than they play their druid, and bring more hps, more CDs, more utility. Druids have a very narrow niche, so narrow that even fights they are amazing on hps wise, bringing another class is perfectly fine and probably even better for certain phases.

    Does everyone need to sit their druids? No. Did a ton of the top guilds druids reroll? Yes? All of them? No. Would they probably bring better...everything if they had switched? Sadly, probably. Like him, I did. I've played my druid since early BC and have been high ranking and trying to perfect since then, but I knew I'd still probably find more success on someone else...and I did. I can play my druid almost perfectly in an encounter and beat her in every way on another healing class that isn't even close to mastered.

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