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  1. #1

    The numbers are in:

    I did this back in Firelands and DS so I thought I would do the same now that we have some solid numbers to look into to.
    Using 25 man heroic WOL parses as reported by raidbots.com and using the highest dps spec from each class for a total of 11. (what that means is if one class has 2 or more specs in the top 11 it is not counted, basically I use the top spec for each class so a total of 11 possible slots)

    Spec score/ Top 100/ Max/ 2months

    Mage: 1
    Lock: 2
    Rogue: 3
    War: 4
    Druid: 5
    DK: 6
    Monk: 7
    Pally: 8
    SPriest: 9
    Sham: 10
    Hunter: 11

    Spec score/ All Parses/ Max/ 2 months
    Hunter: 11

    Spec score/ All Parses/ Average/ 2 months
    Hunter: 11

    Spec score/ All Parses/ Default/ 2 months
    Hunter: 11

    We can clearly see no matter how you put the settings in spec score hunters are dead last so lets look at Dps:

    Dps/ Top 100/ Max/ 2 months
    Hunter: 11

    Dps/ All Parses/ Max/ 2 months
    Hunter: 11

    Dps/ All Parses/ Average/ 2 months
    Hunter: 11

    Dps/ All Parses/ Default/ 2 months
    Hunter: 11

    So I think that sums it up pretty well, last year I had some people say this information wasnt enough and I should look at the individual fights, so here we go... forgive me for the length but posting this now saves time later:

    Dps/ Top 100/ Max/ 2 months

    Stone Dogs: 11th
    Feng:10th
    Garajal:11th
    Kings:10th
    Elegon: 11th
    Emp: 11th
    Vizier: 9th
    Bladelord: 6th
    Garalon: 11th (only used 1 month due to the pet bug on legs being fixed a few weeks ago to get a more acurate number)
    Windlord: 11th (this is the aoe fight that SV is supposed to excell at...)

    Dps/ All Parses/ Max/ 2 months

    Stone Dogs: 11th
    Feng: 11th
    Garajal: 11th
    Kings: 11th
    Elegon: 11th
    Emp: 11th
    Vizier: 8th
    Bladelord:7th
    Garalon: 11th
    Windlord: 11th

    Dps/ All Parses/ Average/ 2 months

    Stone Dogs:11th
    Feng:10th
    Garajal: 9th
    Kings: 7th
    Elegon: 10th
    Emp: 11th
    Vizier: 5th
    Bladelord: 10th
    Garalon: 11th
    Windlord: 11th

    Dps/ All Parses/ Default/ 2 months

    Stone Dogs: 11th
    Feng: 10th
    Garajal: 8th
    Kings: 7th
    Elegon: 11th
    Emp: 10th
    Vizier: 5th
    Bladelord: 10th
    Garalon: 11th
    Windlord: 10th

    In basically every scenerio according to the WOL parses posted, I do not see hunters "near the top" on any fight whatsoever as Ghostfailure said a few weeks ago, in point of fact I see what I saw back before we got buffed at the end of FL... hunters sucking the ass end of 95% of the fights and average to low on one fight that allows the pet 100% uptime on a boss (Vizier)

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    In before "someone has to be last" (on everything).

    But yeah, it's quite sad.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Ghraxxus's Avatar
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    Sooo boiling it down...just delete ur hunters and any non mage dps toons

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    In before "someone has to be last" (on everything).

    But yeah, it's quite sad.



    but pure dps class like hunters its sad....we need to make some voice ...and stop lisen all the time hunters are good ...we are not in PVE ...mages are 3years at top ,,,,and warr has exicute on 2million and kill shot 150k ha ha

  5. #5
    The only reason why anyone would take anything besides mages to raids are buffs.

  6. #6
    Now is this including marks >_> because a lot of heroic fights don't even have marks parses yet and thus it's dps on those fights is considered 0 if you factor it in.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomathon23 View Post
    Now is this including marks >_> because a lot of heroic fights don't even have marks parses yet and thus it's dps on those fights is considered 0 if you factor it in.
    No, you are misunderstanding the way this is done:

    There is a top spec for each class in dps. So taking the highest spec from each class gives us a total of 11 possible spots to rank. I do not include multiple specs like say Warlocks who have 2 specs in the top 11 on alot of the fights, or Warriors that Fury AND Arms rank in the top 11... I take the one spec of each class for a total of 11 possible slots.

    Baically its:
    Fire
    Aflic
    Combat
    BM
    Arms
    Shadow
    Enhance
    Ret
    Mist
    Feral
    Frost DK

    So if Fire is top and say Frost for mages is 7th... Frost gets removed so there is only 1 spec per class represented... the numbers your seeing is the highest dps spec for each class on each boss... if you want to get into what classes have multiple specs ahead of BM hunters... you would be opening a different can of shit and the numbers are bad enough as is without having to post how multiple specs of the same class out do the single highest spec for hunters...

  8. #8
    Windlord: 11th (this is the aoe fight that SV is supposed to excell at...)
    Yeah SV's aoe really only excels when there are so many targets you are quite a bit above the AoE cap, because serpent spread + ISS essentially ignores the AoE cap. So while everyone else's AoE pretty much caps out after 10 targets, yours continues to rise. DK's also tend to pull ahead in such situations because diseases do the same. Otherwise it's at best average AoE.

  9. #9
    I have to say these numbers surprise the hell out of me given how well I perform in my own raids.

    And also how well the Hunters in world first progression perform in their raids. I'm definitely not as good as them.

    Weird. Also fuck BM, raid SV.

  10. #10
    ah okay I see. Yeah hunters are definitely in a pretty meh spot at the moment. I've had parses where I'd be top 5 on WoL as whatever hunter spec and I'd be maybe middle of the pack in my own raid if not last (probably much lower now but had 2nd as survival on protectors this week and was literally lowest dps in my raid) I think the only fight I regularly beat our aff lock/fire mage is heroic spirit kings.

  11. #11
    It is quite sickening to see Frost and Fire Mages beating me with 20k+ dps without even breaking a sweat. And here I am, trying to mash all these buttons in the correct order (which usually gives me a top 25 wol on heroic progress), while a Frost Mage is facerolling his way to another 100k+ parse.

    Absolutely sickening.

  12. #12
    And also how well the Hunters in world first progression perform in their raids.
    Not sure what you mean but I pulled the parses from Kennyloggins guild Midwinter, if you do not know he is argueably the best PVE hunter around and if not at least top 3 or 4... what I found:

    Dogs: 10th
    Feng: 7th but world ranked number 1 for his spec...
    Garajal:7th but world ranked number 2 for his spec...

    Kings: 9th
    Elegon: 11th
    Emp: 15th
    Vizier: 1 World rank 1
    Bladelord: 9th
    Garalon: 15th
    Windlord: 7th
    Amber: 15th
    Empress: 11th with world number 1 rank for his spec and the top dps did 53k more than him...

    The man can play his ass off... he runs world number 1s all the time yet he can only get top place in his guild one time? This is the problem, when hunters are played to the fullest potential they lag severely behind the other dps specs... Yes he plays with some of the best players around but thats the problem... they all play at a super high level and he cant compete with them because of his class not because of lack of skill... its a hunter issue not a player issue and it needs to be addressed.

    What I also noticed is his numbers are the worst of the best, what I mean is they have 7 to 8 dps that usually does 5 to 10k more then the next tier of raiders in the group. Because of his class he ranks 7th to 9th on a lot of fights but would be less than that if some of the other players were a bit more polished...
    Last edited by jax; 2012-11-27 at 04:32 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post
    Not sure what you mean but I pulled the parses from Kennyloggins guild Midwinter, if you do not know he is argueably the best PVE hunter around and if not at least top 3 or 4... what I found:

    Dogs: 10th
    Feng: 7th but world ranked number 1 for his spec...
    Garajal:7th but world ranked number 2 for his spec...

    Kings: 9th
    Elegon: 11th
    Emp: 15th
    Vizier: 1 World rank 1
    Bladelord: 9th
    Garalon: 15th
    Windlord: 7th
    Amber: 15th
    Empress: 11th with world number 1 rank for his spec and the top dps did 53k more than him...

    The man can play his ass off... he runs world number 1s all the time yet he can only get top place in his guild one time? This is the problem, when hunters are played to the fullest potential they lag severely behind the other dps specs... Yes he plays with some of the best players around but thats the problem... they all play at a super high level and he cant compete with them because of his class not because of lack of skill... its a hunter issue not a player issue and it need to be addressed.
    This x100.

    I would really like to stick with my hunter this expansion. Most people would say "Just do whatever is the most fun!" and that's just my point. I derive fun from doing extremely high damage. If I'm getting beat up and down by equally skilled players, then it becomes not fun.

  14. #14
    thanks for the numbers, jax.

  15. #15
    Kinda sad. On some fights I can do as much damage on my alt affliction lock as my hunter, and the lock is a full 25 ilvls lower.
    Will of the Emperor specifically hunter damage is pitiful.

  16. #16
    In blizzard words "Don't worry guys, you got some mobility buffs in 5.1, we shall see if its enough" /sarcasm. (not exact words but close).



  17. #17
    Field Marshal Sagain's Avatar
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    These numbers make me very sad -.- Makes me begin regretting swapping to my hunter back in Wrath. Back in the glory days when Aimed Shot was instant and Armor Pen was the #1 Stat.

  18. #18
    not sure if you hunterbros saw this hotfix patch note, should help out a little:


    Aspect of the Hawk and Aspect of the Iron Hawk now increase ranged attack power by 15% (was 10%).
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...s-november-27/

  19. #19
    The thing that really pisses me off is you can be the greatest player in the world and yet your damage won't reflect it at all. I can do on my mage in 471 iLVL what I can do on my hunter with 496. It is fucking depressing. I know my hunter in and out. My mage? RAF bumped it to 80 and have had it for a month.

  20. #20
    Wouldn't this be very easy to fix? I mean if hunters are worst everywhere, then just increase their damage by 5% or 10%, that's just changing some numbers.
    Blizzard probably says: our data shows different, hunters are fine, apart from a few minor things.

    Fixing PvE is not as hard as fixing PvP. In PvE you only have to change a few numbers or even less, only their multipliers.
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