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  1. #1

    current state of gear in mop for non-raiders - to much time needed!

    With all the talk of the dailies and LFR being required to get anywhere in mop for gear for casuals, and after adding my own thoughts onto the subject, i wanted to start a discussion from a different perspective, from a personal observation i have had lately.

    Here is the problem i have with the current ways to get gear is in mop. My main (hunter) has gotten most of the LFR gear, done most of the faction grind, i don't play hardcore, but i do play enough to get most of the rewards i want. With ONLY LFR gear, and a few valor pieces, i am sitting at 476 average ilvl. My ilvl is fine to do most content, and dailies and even LFR efficiently, no problems there, but if i ever want to get a higher Ilvl than 476...the time to get the gear is far far to long for casual/semi-hardcore people to obtain (from valor/upgrade system)

    In my situation, doing all 3 LFR each week, not doing normals yet (i work at night, and my guild is just kinda putting around for progression) i basically only have gear that is available by LFR and maybe sha each week (but that's 1 time per week, and galleon's spawn timer is terrible i cant even count on even seeing him each week)

    So essentially this tier my max item level is 483 on most pieces, a few 489's (which i have already bought..the cape and chest) all the rest of my gear simply cant get any better, because nothing better drops for me if i don't do normal or heroic raids, and i believe the gap between the 3 is pretty skewed.

    and then in comes the upgrade system, which is great, until you realize the main issue behind what i have listed so far: valor income. The amount of valor per week is 1000, the cap is 3000. Ok so looking at first tier of raiding, and knowing the next tier wont be here for a long time yet, blizzard expects us to grind 1k a week to get our upgrades out of our 483 gear if we don't raid. This is an ok idea in theory, it would allow us that don't raid normals be able to have better gear, and keep progressing.

    Then you add it up though, and to upgrade your gear @ 1500 valor each...i quickly realized the amount of valor needed to do most/all pieces of gear simply would take far to long to even be worth it, if the cap is 1k a week, that is 4k a month. I added up all valor gear upgrades and i would need a total of 17000(!) to make all 483's into 490's etc, and that's not even upgrading the 489's and 496's (from 5.1 faction).

    So what i am concerned about is this: taking all the valor each week to upgrade all this gear, and getting the 496 gear from the new faction vendor, and not raiding normals, just only doing LFR and such, will take basically 6+ months from today going forward....by the time we aucutally got all of it upgraded, a new raid tier will be out, probably a lot sooner than 6 months, so we might get HALF of it upgraded, and then raids come out, making all of it useless once again...so its a decision to even bother doing it...they have the option there, and don't give us the means (reasonably) to get there anytime soon.

    Yes i know this is how it has been in cata, but in cata the first 3 raids were there from the start, and i was fine with having lesser gear, and there wasn't a LFR option. You may also be thinking well why do you need the best gear if you don't raid, what do you need the gear for? well it would be nice to have better gear, and keep progressing, better gear is better for soloing, my style of play and being able to dps faster, and get through content so that can move on to other things (like leveling alts, and repping up again...) i play to be efficient, and having gear out there, but knowing you cant get it because you dont do normal/heroic raid content, with no other means of getting better than what you are currently doing, is my problem.

    i am not the only one that loves to play wow efficiently, and with the current caps and gates, i feel that blizzard is holding us back more than ever on gear and rewards to feel like its even worth my time, its become more of a game that says if you don't raid you don't get anywhere near the best gear, they give us some decent 483's, but normal gear starts at 489, 496 in terrace, and beyond.

    With the way it currently is, its not possible to even get to 490 ilvl even with 6 months of valor upgrades maybe its possible...but by then a new raid tier.

    I think they should give us more valor per week, and up the cap, overall so that we have at least some chance to even get the gear and upgrades, with 17k in valor just to reach the gear level of those who cleared normals/heroics, is a bit extreme, if it was about half of that, it would be a substantial boost in overall gear happiness, allow more people to access and raid normals/heroics, and make people feel they are aucutally progressing, rather than knowing you have 17 weeks of saving valor, just to reach where people are right NOW in gear. Not 6 months from now...the gear people are wearing right now!

    It would make more sense to require about 8k in valor atm currently to get the gear/upgrades to 490 because by the time 3+ months rolls around there will be a new raid tier, so it would at least allow us to get us geared to 485+ or even 490 by then, if its 17k we can forget it pretty much.

    2 items upgraded to 490 a month....with 8 ish items i need to get 483 to 490, that's a very long time invested to be at the gear level of normal/heroic raiders

    I understand raids take time and effort, and are challenging, i understand not everyone should be in 490+ ilvl gear, or be doing heroic raiding, but those of us like myself who are kinda stuck in the middle, it feels like we wont ever get there or be like those at the top, and we aren't at the bottom either, we are just kinda waiting around for new content/raids because our gear cant get any better, there is no options, its all set in stone you get x gear and that's it for now. Come back in 6 months. (i guess that's how heroic raiders feel maybe too though)

    and lastly the problem is to get the 17k valor needed for everything, requires dailies every day, every single day to even reach the cap each week, so not only do you have to be active every single day, doing dailies, dungeons, scenarios, something (after you finish 3 LFR each week) the cap some weeks gets harder to reach, because if you miss a few days, catching up on coins and rep gets tedious, i used to have a stockpile of coins of at least 3-4 weeks out, by missing nearly a week of dailies, i now only have enough per week to get them.

    the rep/valor/coins are directly proportional to dailies done per day, if you fall behind then you have to play even more, doesn't feel some weeks you will ever get ahead again...there's no catch up mechanism for alts, or if you missed a few days, and yet they say its all optional...not if its going to take 17k valor to get to the end! you miss 1k of valor and that's basically a whole WEEK extra at the end.

    so add me to the list of people who still believe dailies and LFR aren't optional...because now we have 6 more months of grinding to do for "upgrades"....yay...

  2. #2
    I really don't get your post? You're moaning that gear takes too long to get from LFR dailies etc and that it's going to take you long to get to that of a raider pretty much?

    Here's an idea.. Stop moaning and join a guild, even social guilds are clearing most new content on normal. Sheesh. (and thats in blue gear/craftables btw)

  3. #3
    You get better gear raiding, damn there is a novel concept.

  4. #4
    Dreadlord
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    Here's a question (and I'm honestly not trying to sound like a jerk) why do you need the gear if you are only messing around in LFR?

    I'm in the exact same boat as you, I do not raid anything besides LFR this tier and I haven't capped valor in almost a month, haven't done dailies in 2-3 weeks. I have 472/474/465 on my 90s and I don't feel as though my gear even needs to be upgraded because I don't feel weak in LFR or when killing mobs out in the world. Now if you're trying to maintain a gear set so that you can raid in the future, then I understand. But just looking at now, you don't need any of the gear you're complaining about having to earn...
    Quote from: Thallidomaniac on March 28, 2010, 05:56:24 am
    Our characters are wearing the same pair of underwear, since like, Level 1. Damn that's unsanitary as hell.

  5. #5
    You want the gear that raiders have... without doing the work?

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    You want gear handed to you in a platter is pretty much what I read equal to what raiders do =/? This will be harsh hell I'm a casual now myself; You don't deserve that gear without earning it / doing the work.

    Sorry It's the harsh truth and I can be more harsher but obviously I'd be break the rules.
    Last edited by N-aix; 2012-11-27 at 05:59 PM.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Shampro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emze View Post
    You want the gear that raiders have... without doing the work?
    This is basicly the summed version of this post.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal shamozzle's Avatar
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    i dont raid or even play every day and ive been capping every week by accident :?

  9. #9
    so, a wall of text only to complain that he wants free-epixxes? Shoo, go back under your bridge and try harder next time.

  10. #10
    If you're at 480ish and have no intention of doing any higher content, then grats. You've reached the top. The valor upgrade system is useless to you. Go do dailies, skill up fishing, go for the Insane title, level an alt, read a book, do something.

  11. #11
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    If you're at 480ish and have no intention of doing any higher content, then grats. You've reached the top. The valor upgrade system is useless to you. Go do dailies, skill up fishing, go for the Insane title, level an alt, read a book, do something.
    Let me uh add something here ''But but I don't wanna do the work''

  12. #12
    Dreadlord Art3x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parkerlynne View Post
    Here's a question (and I'm honestly not trying to sound like a jerk) why do you need the gear if you are only messing around in LFR?

    I'm in the exact same boat as you, I do not raid anything besides LFR this tier and I haven't capped valor in almost a month, haven't done dailies in 2-3 weeks. I have 472/474/465 on my 90s and I don't feel as though my gear even needs to be upgraded because I don't feel weak in LFR or when killing mobs out in the world. Now if you're trying to maintain a gear set so that you can raid in the future, then I understand. But just looking at now, you don't need any of the gear you're complaining about having to earn...
    This in a nutshell. Why do you need the gear?

    If you want better gear then find a time to raid. Obviously you play quite a bit, maybe find a guild that you can raid with during the day since you work at night?

  13. #13
    Epic! shokter's Avatar
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    I hear "I don't know how to drive...I like to sit in the car in the driveway and fiddle with the radio etc...but I want a cherry, top of the line, state of the art automobile to do it in. Oh, and I don't think it's fair that I "have to" work to afford this shiny car that I hardly even use anyway." Sorry, but I have little sympathy for those who go all out on the gear treadmill for little to no reason.
    Last edited by shokter; 2012-11-27 at 06:04 PM.
    "Brevity is...wit"

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by parkerlynne View Post
    Here's a question (and I'm honestly not trying to sound like a jerk) why do you need the gear if you are only messing around in LFR?
    This question belongs into the top ten of the most retarded frequently used arguments on gaming forums. Not trying to sound like a jerk, by the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayhos View Post
    every video game has gamey aspects to it

  15. #15
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art3x View Post
    This in a nutshell. Why do you need the gear?

    If you want better gear then find a time to raid. Obviously you play quite a bit, maybe find a guild that you can raid with during the day since you work at night?
    I couldn't agree any better

  16. #16
    I'll admit to more skimming your post than reading it in depth, but my first question is: "Why do you need better gear?"

    Improvement of your character is the carrot at the end of the stick for MMOs, and gear is the classic way to do this. But at the same time, gear only has value if you do something with it. You basically say up front you don't have much time or interest for normal or heroic progression and are able to do just fine in the content you do engage in. I don't say this insultingly, but to me it really is the crux of the issue. I love leveling alts, and at this time I try to keep three characters raid-ready, but this is only because they either regularly raid or I like to occasionally snag a raid group with them.

    It seems this is why Blizzard has implemented so many other things to do in MoP. It simply isn't possible to make the gear progression time-consuming enough for people who want something to do, while making it as easily accessible to those who just want to dabble in the game.

    EDIT: doh, while I was writing my post somebody beat me to essentially the same point.

  17. #17
    Brewmaster lockblock's Avatar
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    Only read half of your short story but valor upgrades were created with the idea that you can upgrade some of your gear and not all of it.
    If they gave you 5k valor or even 3k the choice of what to upgrade would be meaningless.

    The important thing to note is you don't need to be at the same gear level as normal or heroic raiders since you aren't doing those raids.
    If its an e-peen thing better find a job that fits with raid times.
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  18. #18
    I think you are ready for normal mode pugging? If not I think the tear collectors on this thread pretty much summed it up.

  19. #19
    my bad i did write quite the rant, but my post was meant to say this: the gear i want it isn't about having the same gear ilvl wise as raiders they should always have better, what i am saying is that the time to GET the gear is the problem, i have no problem putting in the effort, i do not want it handed to me or any of that what you guys said, i said i understand that raiders should get the best because it takes the hardest to do, i get that...

    what i am saying is that the current caps/gates that wow has, is the same caps we have had for a long time, and its old, and outdated to how a lot of players play, myself included.

    What i mean by my post is to say that if i wanted to get to 490 (and 476 isnt 480+) it would take nearly 17k valor ish is needed to get the same ilvl as raiders, and which will take nearly 6 months to even get...so i guess they decided that the same amount of effort was to make it last 10x longer to get than raiders? raiders get 489/496 gear every week, where as the best i can look forward to is 483, and then to upgrade to 490, 2 items per month, for the next 4 months? idk if anyone can see the problem is with this, i guess i am all alone and a troll and need a better guild (all of which are valid arguments i guess?)

    so to say again, i don't want handed gear or free gear as much as putting in SIX MONTHS of the same thing every day to even get the same gear raiders get in the first month of the tier....does no one ever see that? is it so wrong to get some better gear sooner? even if it was 8k like i said in my post, that's still 3 months solid of dailies, LFR and upgrading...raiders have had access to that same gear since early November, so by in 3-4 months that will be like march ish before i can even see 490 ilvl, FROM a 476 ilvl currently...14 ilvls in 4 months? capping every single week to reach the same gear that raiders have had for 4-5 months before us? that's a pretty big gap, and i guess I'll just have to live with it and move on, which i will, because its how its always been (right?)

    *edit* and whats so wrong for wanting better gear? i hate that argument that people always tell me when i bring this up, whats the point in having all this gear you want to obtain, and knowing you cant get it? why isn't there more ways to get that gear, than just saying oh sorry you don't raid you wont ever get it? its been like that since wow came out almost, and i am dumb/retarded/troll/l2play because i think otherwise? or think it needs changed?
    Last edited by Urza29; 2012-11-27 at 06:27 PM.

  20. #20
    He's already answered why he thinks he needs better gear with... whatever this nonsense means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urza29 View Post
    Yes i know this is how it has been in cata, but in cata the first 3 raids were there from the start, and i was fine with having lesser gear, and there wasn't a LFR option. You may also be thinking well why do you need the best gear if you don't raid, what do you need the gear for? well it would be nice to have better gear, and keep progressing, better gear is better for soloing, my style of play and being able to dps faster, and get through content so that can move on to other things (like leveling alts, and repping up again...) i play to be efficient, and having gear out there, but knowing you cant get it because you dont do normal/heroic raid content, with no other means of getting better than what you are currently doing, is my problem.
    So you want the same gear raiders are working for and utilizing to the max for hard mode progression where it's actually needed... so you can solo better??? Really??? No. No sir you do not want it for soloing "better." You want to half ass around in the game and strut around in front of the HM raiders in the same gear as them. That is what you are wanting. And it is not happening. Hell you get access to the content and gear already in LFR and that's still not enough? Remember when you didn't even have that if you didn't put in a small effort to join a raid group? Yeah.. real conundrum you're in. Lemme play a very tiny violin for you.

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