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  1. #21
    All I can say is if you do not plan to raid then you do not really need the raid gear other than showing it off. I got my ilvl to 470 so I can do LFR and grab a couple nice pieces of healing gear. But I only casually raid now. (Don't get me wrong, I use to do that race for server first bullshit, I know how to push my class). I just don't have the time anymore especially with finals coming up and whatnot. But I have fun doing bgs and challenge modes. Bgs have nothing to do with valor gear so I don't mind. And my ilvl gets minimized anyway in challenge modes so better gear does not mean anything to me.

    Just throwing this out there too, for all of you saying "dailies is the only way to gear up for LFR/raids," no. Get your heroic gear, bam, LFR #1. Do the klaxxi QUEST LINE not the dailies and you should get a neck piece there. Craft stuff (like what 8k or so for 376 stuff. and grab a conquest pvp piece. (plus if you are a leather wearer and for some reason you have a cloth piece that is higher ilvl than your current leather piece, keep it in your bags, it counts to your ilvl.. this goes for all armor wearers as long as the item is equippable. ) sorry.

    But if you don't raid, then you don't need the gear. If you do start raiding, you can't just jump in like wotlk or cata and be awesome. They did a better job this expack of the tier raiding system like vanilla and tbc. There is no way around getting better gear then if you can't raid.
    EDIT
    Just saw your solo post. At this point you can almost global the mobs, so much better gear won't help too much.
    *Fun fact! Globaling comes from vanilla/early tbc where mages can PoM Pyro with a trinket on use and do double the damage, if it crits, you died. (In one global literally!)
    Last edited by Crianthia; 2012-11-27 at 06:23 PM.

  2. #22
    Why do you think you need to have every possible upgrade if your lifestyle doesn't allow that kind of playtime?

  3. #23
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    This question belongs into the top ten of the most retarded frequently used arguments on gaming forums. Not trying to sound like a jerk, by the way.
    How is it 'retarded'? Also, it wasn't an argument, it was a literal question. Which is why I elaborated and said, are you trying to maintain a gear set for when you can raid again further down my reply. I play pretty much exactly like this guy and yet our views on gear are entirely different. I don't know if it's my swap from 12+ hrs a week of raiding to super casual but I just don't understand people's need for gear that their current activities do not require.
    Quote from: Thallidomaniac on March 28, 2010, 05:56:24 am
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Urza29 View Post
    What i mean by my post is to say that if i wanted to get to 490 (and 476 isnt 480+) it would take nearly 17k valor ish is needed to get the same ilvl as raiders, and which will take nearly 6 months to even get...so i guess they decided that the same amount of effort was to make it last 10x longer to get than raiders? raiders get 489/496 gear every week, where as the best i can look forward to is 483, and then to upgrade to 490, 2 items per month, for the next 4 months? idk if anyone can see the problem is with this, i guess i am all alone and a troll and need a better guild (all of which are valid arguments i guess?)
    According to you, you can upgrade 2 items a month. People in 25 man raids are not guaranteed an item upgrade each week. Especially when RNG is rough on you and drops plate instead of cloth or strength weapons instead of intellect. There are times when raiders can go weeks without an upgrade. The valor purchase and upgrade is a way for raiders to upgrade when RNG has been bad to them and for non-raiders to upgrade their gear.

  5. #25
    Correct. I've gone three weeks without a drop that's come to me.

    Valor is how I'm managing to keep up with gear. It's been two months and people are already complaining about the time it takes to get gear.

    Tough. It's taken me two months to get to my il. Why should you get it almost as fast?

  6. #26
    I have a hard time understanding why in the world a player who is openly rejecting raids - which are, to be honest, still the only real endgame content WoW offers - would want to gear up. The only reason to get better gear is to perform better in raids. Nothing else. If that is not your playstyle, well it's your choice, but then you should quietly accept what you are given and not expect anything more.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    According to you, you can upgrade 2 items a month. People in 25 man raids are not guaranteed an item upgrade each week. Especially when RNG is rough on you and drops plate instead of cloth or strength weapons instead of intellect. There are times when raiders can go weeks without an upgrade. The valor purchase and upgrade is a way for raiders to upgrade when RNG has been bad to them and for non-raiders to upgrade their gear.
    This. I remember raiding Archimonde and this healer and I had the most dkp but we always took turns on who gets what piece so we can maximize dkp usage. :P so bad of us. But I let him get the first Apostle of Argus, and I was to get the next staff but I literally did not see it until I solo'd the place on my dk in wotlk and not again until cata. RNG blows. So IMPROVISE and find a way to keep up. I just grabbed the staff of immaculate recovery from bt for example. And getting 2 upgrades a month is VERY generous of blizzard and this valor upgrade is like a gift for us, yet instead of seeing it as "oh cool I can upgrade my favorite gear" everyone sees it as "WTF, now I have to farm MORE." You don't have to, it is a choice. This is the first time blizzard ever did this. ENJOY IT. We flame blizzard too fast for their new and exciting ideas. (This is to help the unlucky/casual LIKE YOU OP to "keep up" with the lucky people.

  8. #28
    I don't see the problem. You don't need to upgrade every single piece before the next raid because the next raid will have better loot anyway. Worst case, you get a replacement for an upgraded item rather than one of those you didn't do yet and even then it would be an upgrade.

    This post makes even less sense than some others about this topic. Here, we have a casual non-raider complaining how there is ways to improve his gear.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Donair View Post
    So you want the same gear raiders are working for and utilizing to the max for hard mode progression where it's actually needed... so you can solo better??? Really??? No. No sir you do not want it for soloing "better." You want to half ass around in the game and strut around in front of the HM raiders in the same gear as them. That is what you are wanting. And it is not happening. Hell you get access to the content and gear already in LFR and that's still not enough? Remember when you didn't even have that if you didn't put in a small effort to join a raid group? Yeah.. real conundrum you're in. Lemme play a very tiny violin for you.
    You can disagree without being an ass.

    OT: Progression is part of the mmo experience and applies even to the non-raider and that means for the most part gear upgrades. Blizzard should pander (as it does somewhat) to the casual player as well. I'm not on the PTR so i don't know much about the Brawler's Guild but it seems casuals will be at a disadvantage there from not participating in one facet of the game IE heroic raiding. I'm a casual as well and don't do dailies at all. Nor LFR. I level alts and farm extremely casually. So, i see both sides of the argument. In short: Don't be so concerned that your neighbor got his shiny new bike in a different manner than you. Just be happy for him.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by parkerlynne View Post
    How is it 'retarded'? Also, it wasn't an argument, it was a literal question. Which is why I elaborated and said, are you trying to maintain a gear set for when you can raid again further down my reply. I play pretty much exactly like this guy and yet our views on gear are entirely different. I don't know if it's my swap from 12+ hrs a week of raiding to super casual but I just don't understand people's need for gear that their current activities do not require.
    The question is nonsensical in its nature. You could as well ask why heroic dungeons drop any gear or currency at all, as they don't require any upgrades from questing gear to be completed whatsoever.

    Nobody needs anything. You don't ask yourself why you need mushrooms in a Super Mario game. You don't ask yourself what's even the point of beating Metal Gear Solid. Why do you need a gas button in any racing game?

    Collecting gear is one of the absolute core elements of a game like World of Warcraft. It's total self-purpose. There's absolutely no real point where you start to "need" gear and no point where this need ends. It's completely made up by players. All the game does is make you WANT the gear - for example when you realize that a boss might be too tough to handle without upgrades.

    And then there's the people who have this ridiculously snobbish conceptions of where and when the "real" game begins - the stuff that "matters". Raiding being the most prominent example. Raiding means as much or little as fishing, depending on who's playing the game. It's a complete construction of thought that there's a higher purpose for gear if you're raiding. The nonsensical nature of this mindset shows very well when a dedicated raider burns out on the game and starts whining about the "gear treadmill" or gets depressed over his gear becoming worthless over night because the level cap got raised. He experiences a shocking decline of value, purpose and justification, but only because he fooled himself into believing that he's doing stuff that "matters".

    You collect stuff in WoW because you collect stuff. That's how the game works. Everything else is a self-induced illusion. And why shouldn't a non-raiding person not want to improve his characters' stats, anyway? It's just as much an artificial goal that you set for yourself (like, maxing out your toon within the scope of content you're doing) as clearing all the content, or getting the realm first, or whatever.
    Last edited by Pull My Finger; 2012-11-27 at 06:44 PM.
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  11. #31
    As a *gasp* casual, I do not understand this topic. I try and gear to be able to fill in open spots in my guilds raid teams as needed. I am a busy guy and my work prevents me from having the same evenings off every week. I do LFR, Heros, and PvP as my time allows. If you are not a raider, you have nothing but time to get gear that will be replaced by greens in the next xpac. If I wanted to get the norm/hero gear it would only be because I decided to become a full time raider. For what I do the gear available to me now is more than acceptable.

  12. #32
    you can upgrade the items, which is +8 ilvls, putting you above 490.
    if you don't raid/do anything challenging, why should you require any better gear?

  13. #33
    Herald of the Titans Mehman's Avatar
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    Basicly what I got from the OP is "I want better gear but I don't want to put in the effort"
    380~ish is VERY GOOD for someone who isn't raiding normal / heroic, it's decent for someone who is doing normals even! If you want raiding quality gear, you put in the effort and raid! If you can't do that, be happy with what you have and quit whining.

  14. #34
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    I can understand wanting to progress your character. That is one of the attractions of this game.

    However, raiding is designed to offer you the best gear available. If you are not able to raid for whatever reasons then you have to console yourself with following the alternative path, which is the one that you outlined.

    I am in a very similar position at the moment. I don't raid with my guild or PuG's. I am content running LFR when I can. I don't even cap my valor every week. I just take everything as it comes. There is no rush. As the expansion ages I am sure mechanisms will be put in place to quickly get alts/returning players upto par with the current content.

  15. #35
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    The time sink is the point.

    One of the biggest flaws with Classic was that players who couldn't raid had very, very few epics they could work towards. They had no path of character progression. Over the years, Blizzard has toyed with various avenues to allow non-raiders to still have options for upgrading their character. The end result is what we have today:

    Everyone can progress their character, but solo players are going to do it much slower than those who do five mans, and those who do five mans exclusively are going to it slower than those who do LFR, and LFRaiders are going to be slower than those who raid normal.

    I think it's a fair system. Everyone can get rewards, but the speed and quality is proportionate to the investment. You, as a solo player, can still get yourself almost a full set of gear without ever stepping foot into a raid. Yes, it will take a lot of time and effort, but it's really great that the opportunity exists.

    You want that it should be quick? Then what will you do?

    Ignoring, for a moment, the argument over whether a fast pace is fair, let's look at it from the perspective of a successful MMO. If everyone could gear up very quickly, what would be left for the people who aren't raiders to do? MMOs need to have grinds and time sinks to give players something to do, or they will stop playing. Wasn't that the huge complaint with Cataclysm? Nothing to do! For a player who does minimal group activity, you have even less options to choose from. Giving you lots of mini goals (be it rep or VP) to work towards is good design.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    You don't ask yourself what's even the point of beating Metal Gear Solid. Why do you need a gas button in any racing game?
    Hahahahahaha Sir you made my day right there. Add on, what is the point of saving zelda/peach, they just get captured AGAIN.

  17. #37
    It takes too long to get gear that you don't actually need for your playstyle?

  18. #38
    Funny thing about this thread is if your ilvl is still under 480 you're probably better off still buying valor gear than upgrading your pieces making the entire point moot.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire View Post
    This question belongs into the top ten of the most retarded frequently used arguments on gaming forums. Not trying to sound like a jerk, by the way.
    [speaking to the topic and not to you Jimmy, which I now see you already said what I'm saying as well]

    Tat question has been answered, even by Blizzard themselves. Players want to feel a sense of player progression, which normally means player power. Even if I was happy doing dailies, more powerful gear equals faster\easier dailies. Since I'm on my 4th 90 now, I'm reminded how much easier better gear makes the dailies.

    There are a few rare spawns that I literally can not kill fast enough on my Paladin before they beat me to death (not with their specials). Once he gets past 460, I'm sure they will be easy.

    I didn't read that entire wall of text, but from what I did read, the OP's compliant is a little flimsy. Whether in a game or in the real world, if you want to progress you gotta put the time in. Like Blizzard said, you have to put a value on these things. If you want X reward, then you have to determine if it's worth X work. If it's not worth it to you to do the work, then you have to settle for what is available for the work you are willing to do
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2012-11-27 at 07:21 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    But that question has been answered, even by Blizzard themselves. Players want to feel a sense of player progression, which normally means player power. Even if I was happy doing dailies, more powerful gear equals faster\easier dailies. Since I'm on my 4th 90 now, I'm reminded how much easier better gear makes the dailies.

    There are a few rare spawns that I literally can not kill fast enough on my Paladin before they beat me to death (not with their specials). Once he gets past 460, I'm sure they will be easier.

    I didn't read that entire wall of text, but from what I did read, the OP's compliant is a little flimsy. Whether in a game or in the real world, if you want to progress you gotta put the time in. Like Blizzard said, you have to put a value on these things. If you want X reward, then you have to determine if it's worth X work. If it's not worth it to you to do the work, then you have to settle for what is available for the work you are willing to do
    I didn't read the OP at all, I was directly adressing the claim that "you don't need better gear if you don't raid anyway". I can imagine that there could be a point where the progress curve is too steep, to a point where the "carrot on a stick" principle stops working.

    Actually, in terms of gear, I might be experiencing that myself right now. I stopped raiding quite a while ago, so that's not on my list of things anyway. There are other things I like to work on: leveling certain characters to 90, maxing out all professions, to name a few. And I also used to get all pieces of non-raiding valor gear and setting that goal for myself before considering a toon "done".

    But the way things work in MoP, I actually gave up on that one. I'm nowhere near maxing out my weekly valor. I'm under the (perhaps subjective or wrong) impression that we're getting way less valor than we used to in, let's say, Cata. I bought two pieces of valor gear so far. I think it didn't take so long in Cata. I may be wrong. Perhaps I'm just simply playing way less, or running way less dungeons than I used to.

    Anyways, I noticed that my progress in terms of gear is so slow that I stop caring about it. It's just not enough to keep me at it. I'm not complaining about it though. It's just me not willing to put in the amount of time the game requires me to this time around. I concentrate more on my other "projects" in the game. I can understand however if someone feels more bothered by it than myself.
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