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  1. #1

    Boomkin - we don't need buffing! We need some smoothness.

    I saw some threads on this and other forums like "Moonkin is not viable" or "Moonkins are fine". Funny thing is there are more or less the same amount of threads about moonkins being to weak or being ok. As a Moonkin myself i think that there is a problem with our class but it is not problem with numbers.

    Our burst is very strong and our aoe is also decent. The problem I think is with complexity of our gameplay. When a mage or a shadow priest needs to refresh his dots he just do it. We have to keep track of our eclipse (which in itself isn't that much problem) and with Nature's Grace. The second one is the most problematic becouse any kind of movement or pause can slow you down in getting to the next eclipse which lowers your dps by a ton. Another problem is with our cooldowns. Incarnation have 3 minutes cd. but we cannot use it like other classes. I hate to see Incarnation coming off cd. when I am about to finish Lunar Eclipse! There are so much crap we have to track that every tiny mistake costs as so much more then other casters. I love druid (i also play as a guardian) but it so hard to keep track with every single thing (even with addons), especially after 4h of raiding.

    And yeah - you can say, L2P noob, moonkins are for pros. I cannot argue with that argument. Honestly thou I think blizz could do fix us just like they've done with retri (smoother generating holy power) without touching our dps. So do you have any ideas how to do it?

    TL;DR - It is much harder to do a good dps on moonkins compering to other casters. Blizz do not need to buff us, they need to take out some crap we have to watch all the time.


    - My idea is to make Nature's Grace passive and (if needed) lower our damage to match it. I hate NG becouse it forces me to get out of eclipse ASAP even if I have to move a lot or do something else.

    P.S. Sorry for my english.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal
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    This is part of the beauty of it in my eyes. Although I wouldn't say Boomkins are complex at all, far from it.

    With experience comes smoothness.

  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Movement feels especially penalizing, you don't just lose DPS at that moment. Our burst is such a HUGE part of our DPS.

    I think it's a real divider between an awesome boomkin and a really good boomkin: how well they can set up their timing to make sure they can burst on cooldown.

  4. #4
    I don't like playing boomkin at all this expac, mostly because the casts feel so slow, the dot management is a bit annoying and there's too many cooldowns to manage imo. It's all very doable but I prefer playing feral at the moment.

  5. #5
    Absolutely love the class complexity. Yes, it has a vastly punishing rotation, but the gameplay of it is just amazing. I think overall the dps is fine, but i wouldn't exclude a 'execute' ability, considering most classes now have them... Execute, Hammer of wrath, Drain Soul, Kill Shot, bla bla... Numbers are indeed lower then a lot of other classes, but i guess that's the price for utility.

    As for the punishing rotation and specific eclipse demand on certain abilities, that just comes with experience i'd say. My problem is that with so many improves\upgrade on my guild so fast, and just when i think i got the timings right for eclipses for certain phases\adds\wtv, it just gets changed like hell and it all goes down the drain (in regard of a 'perfect' execution).

    But please, DO NOT over simplify the class... there are other options\classes for people who can't really deal with it.

    Oh, and my major beef : Why doesn't Balance Druid have any dmg increase Glyph? I feel sad about not having a choice really, and they're all utility glyphs. Rebirth full hp, stampedings, heal while moonkin... bah. Maybe it's just me, but i really dislike not having a decent major glyph choice.
    Last edited by hulkgor; 2012-11-28 at 05:17 AM.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire
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    I have to agree that timing incarnation+NV, after initial pullBurst, can be tricky, especially for bosses whose mechanics make them immune, or disappear, this can be frustrating. Especially in new fights - when you need to learn proper timing.

    Sometimes I use Soul of the Forest +HotW (due to passive bonus), I lose burst but I have just 1 CD to manage properly - Celestial Alignment.
    I only wish there was a glyph that would allow changing HotW 6 min cd into +additional 3% or 4% of primary stats (passive HotW bonus). That would make things really simple (cooldowns management close to zero worry).

  7. #7
    Starfire cast time is too long, DPS outside of CDs is quite low and Symbiosis is a useless gimmick.

    EDIT: Shrooms are useless, and moonkin AoE takes ages to set up and is very immobile.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire
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    I find Symbiosis useful, I always put it on warlock, and that gives very decent dmg reduction CD (similar with rogue). Mirror images from mage can also be useful for dropping threat.
    If our shrooms were somewhere around where they were in Cataclysm we would be overpowered.

  9. #9
    I use symbiosis to get AMS from our DK tank usually, allows me to bypass mechanics like the fear in Empress last phase, or the lightning prison in protectors. It can be pretty damn useful honestly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    I don't really get how Bloodlust fits Shamans...

    "I need to calm the elements, and through our sacred bond we will - wait, is that a fucking boss? I'M SO FUCKING ANGRY! I'M GOING TO KILL HIM! NO, WAIT! I'M GOING TO RAPE HIM THEN KILL HIM! WITH SPOONS! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE!"

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Honestly, our DPS is balanced alot around the 4 set bonus. It lengthens our dots, meaning we refresh them less often, but not only that, it allows us to reforge away 2k+ haste into more crit. More crit = more starsurges = more damage on the move, making those penalties you talk about almost void.

    I raid a fair amount, (my guild is 5/16 hc atm) and I've only just got 2 set, so will assume unless you've been uber lucky, you don't have 4set OP. Get 4set, and then re-evaluate this thread. Until then, maybe make some HUGE weak auras to help you track your buffs and CDs.
    Last edited by xtramuscle; 2012-11-28 at 09:48 AM.

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  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Useful's Avatar
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    i rerolled boomkin like 1 week ago, trying to get a break from resto. what i do miss in this spec is OOMPH crits. starsurge crit for 50k in pvp? really? On the other side i feel really comfortable in pve. i run only LFRs tho and i think 50k dps in resto gear seems about right. still there is a lot to learn and i find boomkin entertaining and interesting spec to play.

  12. #12
    my main concern is with Nature's Grace. It should be passive or something. Balacing eclipses is what i love about this class but NG is ruining everything. It forces you out of the eclipse asap. Being in eclipse should be optimal but now it is optimal to be at 75/80 out of eclipse state :/ NG is outdated and I think it have to go.

  13. #13
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uLotUu View Post
    my main concern is with Nature's Grace. It should be passive or something. Balacing eclipses is what i love about this class but NG is ruining everything. It forces you out of the eclipse asap. Being in eclipse should be optimal but now it is optimal to be at 75/80 out of eclipse state :/ NG is outdated and I think it have to go.
    Whether you have NG or not, it still takes the exact same amount of casts to transition eclipses. The faster you do so, the better.

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  14. #14
    Field Marshal Yazgot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uLotUu View Post
    my main concern is with Nature's Grace. It should be passive or something. Balacing eclipses is what i love about this class but NG is ruining everything. It forces you out of the eclipse asap. Being in eclipse should be optimal but now it is optimal to be at 75/80 out of eclipse state :/ NG is outdated and I think it have to go.
    That will let you to camp at eclipses. I don`t know if it is good, for sure boomkin dynamic would be hurt.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord lappee's Avatar
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    Fyi, moonkins is one of the easiest spec in game atm

  16. #16
    Moonkins aren't in great shape right now. AoE is horrendous, probably the worst in the game. (or very close) Probably the best burst in the game (multi-dot and single) but dips very low, averages out to be one of the worst single target specs in the game right now. Great utility, but unfortunately that isn't something people spend a lot of time thinking about when they see the moonkin at the bottom of the meters. Having to move when you aren't refreshing DoTs or using starsurge procs is also devastating - maybe one of the worst specs for DPS while moving, at least single target.

    Moonkins also probably have one of the most complicated opening rotations in the game, and if you aren't doing it right, it's devastating to your DPS. But yeah, "lol moonkins easy."

    There aren't very many fights in this tier for moonkins to shine. They're pretty solid at multidot (like Will) but you coulda rolled a warlock and topped every fight - AoE, single target and multidot.

    They really need to buff mushrooms, at the -very- least.
    Last edited by Daerio; 2012-11-28 at 07:28 PM.

  17. #17
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    Honestly, our DPS is balanced alot around the 4 set bonus. It lengthens our dots, meaning we refresh them less often, but not only that, it allows us to reforge away 2k+ haste into more crit. More crit = more starsurges = more damage on the move, making those penalties you talk about almost void.

    I raid a fair amount, (my guild is 5/16 hc atm) and I've only just got 2 set, so will assume unless you've been uber lucky, you don't have 4set OP. Get 4set, and then re-evaluate this thread. Until then, maybe make some HUGE weak auras to help you track your buffs and CDs.

    I was kind of thinking the same. I also only have 2-set, so hard to say for sure how it will play out.

    I am tempted to just swap Incarnation for Soul of the Forest for now. Lei Shi went into hiding right after popping it last night and I almost punched my monitor. But really, there are just too many times I've had to hold it up for a long time, because of unexpected delays in my rotation, like a rebirth, or having to move for an extended period. Incarnation is awesome at the start of the pull, but even there it sucks because for some reason we are trying to mostly run an undergeared tank and he stands no chance against my burst. D`:

  18. #18
    I'm sorry but I honestly am not sure what the fuss in here is about. I don't feel as though I'm having trouble timing or prioritizing my cooldowns. On a simple fight with minimal gmmicks, moving, or adds, I typically find that I'm entering lunar eclipse right on queue to use cooldowns optimally without a problem. If the fight has a lot of adds, moving, or gimmicks, it only takes a few attempts before I figure out when I should be using my cooldowns for the maximum amount of uninterrupted casting. The ONLY thing that bugs me, that has zero to do with balance at all, is my guild's distaste for letting us know when BL will be used before the fight starts or even during the fight. "After this phase is over I'm using BL," or "I was going to use BL here but because of x I'm saving it for y." But that's... nothing to do with our own cooldown managements.

    As for dots, typically you should be using them at the start of an eclipse, right? Then, as you cast into your next eclipse, crits should keep the dots up long enough that they wear off right as you enter your next eclipse or right before. If you end up moving a ton, all you have to do is recognize that your dots may run out early and recast them before you leave eclipse before NG is over. If you're already out of eclipse and NG is over, if you're almost there, you just wait a cast to hit eclipse and redot. If you're at 0 energy with no NG, then you just...cast them. You're not going to magically get NG or enter an eclipse without manually casting into it, so you recognize that fact and just cast a few unempowered dots to get some starsurge procs and keep your uptime going until you can stay still long enough to hit eclipse.

    I don't see "every mistake costing us more than other casters". What about an ele shaman that casts lava burst without FS up, or casts ES+Fulmination with a few seconds left on FS, then instant LvB procs without FS up and your shocks are on CD?

    What mistakes do we have? Casting the eclipse'd dot first and having lunar showers on the non-empowered dot by accident? I'm not seeing them. If "using your cooldowns at a bad time" is the mistake we're talking about here, that sounds like a pebkac issue to me. I don't know all TOO much about other casters, but I can see about maybe two or three big mistakes we could make that are all very easily avoidable. Those kinds of mistakes are supposed to cost you, because you are not supposed to make them. If casting the wrong nuke in an eclipse wasn't a huge problem what would be the point of understanding how to play your class and playing it well and skillfully?

    Maybe I'm actually horrible and that's why I'm not recognizing these problems, but I feel like everything is pretty damn smooth to me.
    Last edited by Pascal; 2012-11-28 at 08:33 PM.

  19. #19
    I've been raiding on two toons this tier, my frost DK and my Boomkin. Yes I love my laser bird and his kamehameha waves, but I just feel so insignificant next to my DK. I've included links to my armory below so you can compare their gear, but to summarize my DK is below my boomkin in gear(477 DK, 485 Boomy) but just feels like a total overmatch for my boomkin. On elegon with 10 stacks on boss (4 orbs, let 1 through; executed twice) I did 120k roughly on both toons. Also my DK was using a blue belt at the time and much less gear, including an LFR weapon rather than the normal I now have.

    I picked up frost DK 2 weeks into expansion, I've been boomkin since cata launch. I have a huge skill difference comparing my boomkin to my DK, but I still match my boomkin on a fight that should penalize my DK more.

    I'm not saying whether DK's are OP or that boomkins need a buff for sure, but I think a mix of both is due. It's a bit depressing to open hard on a boss and just watch my dps fall like a comet until my next Inc/NV-> CA phase


    Armory:
    DK: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ombardi/simple
    Druid: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Bonsaii/simple

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Talindra View Post
    I've been raiding on two toons this tier, my frost DK and my Boomkin. Yes I love my laser bird and his kamehameha waves, but I just feel so insignificant next to my DK. I've included links to my armory below so you can compare their gear, but to summarize my DK is below my boomkin in gear(477 DK, 485 Boomy) but just feels like a total overmatch for my boomkin. On elegon with 10 stacks on boss (4 orbs, let 1 through; executed twice) I did 120k roughly on both toons. Also my DK was using a blue belt at the time and much less gear, including an LFR weapon rather than the normal I now have.

    I picked up frost DK 2 weeks into expansion, I've been boomkin since cata launch. I have a huge skill difference comparing my boomkin to my DK, but I still match my boomkin on a fight that should penalize my DK more.

    I'm not saying whether DK's are OP or that boomkins need a buff for sure, but I think a mix of both is due. It's a bit depressing to open hard on a boss and just watch my dps fall like a comet until my next Inc/NV-> CA phase


    Armory:
    DK: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ombardi/simple
    Druid: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Bonsaii/simple
    Not trying to say anything about you, but balance druids are overall higher than frost DKs on Elegon according to WoL for both difficulties and raid sizes. By ~20k, but, well, what I'm saying is I guess that your anecdotal evidence isn't proof that balance is weak.

    Take a look
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...legon/10N/dps/

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