Patch 5.1 Hotfixes: 5% more ranged attack power.

[dzidek]

This is little shit guys 5% is nothing compare with Mages,Warrs,Walocks....as i say look Mogushan Valts on World of logs .where is first hunter Rank on eny boss...Hunters pure dps class ...pure shit we are

Little improvement is better than none. We have to enjoy the little things, until Blizz "fix" us.

[iggie]

Band-aid, but at least it's something...

[Shinzai]

I'd say it's slightly more than a band-aid. It appears to me to put us mid-high of the average dps comparisons. May not beat certain classes that are excelling to ridiculous levels, but it's enough to put us ahead of most of the board.

[Deleted]

I'd say it's slightly more than a band-aid. It appears to me to put us mid-high of the average dps comparisons. May not beat certain classes that are excelling to ridiculous levels, but it's enough to put us ahead of most of the board.

Midd on what... single target bosses... wich there are like NONE.

Any cleave fight and we are DEAD LAST, nothing even come close to beeing as shit

[Xeraxis]

If someone is going to accuse me of being a bad hunter because I feel that our DPS isn't up to par with others given similar skill and gear they'd want to of actually done something similar themselves. That is why I brought up his progression.

So his progression means what? It doesn't reflect his personal skill.

[Donkeywing]

Hunters are fine I have never had a problem being competative dps wise, except for garalon maybe

[Nemesis003]

Hunters are fine I have never had a problem being competative dps wise, except for garalon maybe

then you play with bad everything else.

[Deleted]

Hunters are fine I have never had a problem being competative dps wise, except for garalon maybe

Agree, I'm doing just fine. Although I did a random 5 man the other day and some 478 windwalker was making me spam hard to keep up.

Nerf 5 man random monks.

[Deleted]

Hunters are fine I have never had a problem being competative dps wise, except for garalon maybe

Then you need to stop playing with the other 9 drooling noskill retards.

[Count Zero]

Be glad they gave you a couple small boosts (movement, RAP) rather than a huge buff ... because they would over-revert the huge buff and leave you worse than you are now.

[Deleted]

It's good. No aspect dancing (and losing RAP when using fox), 5% more RAP on aspect for 100% up time and PvP burst nerfs (which were necessary, killing malevolent geared players in couple of globals was stupid).

All in all i find these changes really nice. I switched LR to Blinkstrike for PvE now, MUCH better utility skill. I hated 5.04 BM just because of how dumb LR was, attacking everything instead of focusing on target i need to nuke asap (garalon leg, elegon cube adds, courage on emps etc.) Blinkstrike not only hits hard but also TELEPORTS PET to desired target! No downtime on target switching which is also dps boost.

[Shinzai]

Midd on what... single target bosses... wich there are like NONE.

Any cleave fight and we are DEAD LAST, nothing even come close to beeing as shit

True, but to fix that would require a change of class mechanics or they'd have to add new spells altogether, as non of our attacks are truly designed for cleaving outside of Glaive Toss.

The ability we need would be 'Split Shot' - It'd basically be a focused version of Multi Shot that can only hit 2 or 3 targets maximum, but hits for the same, or slightly less damage than an arcane shot per target. They could achieve a split shot effect by creating another Aspect - one focused on attacking multiple targets at the same time, or just by introducing it as a new shot: Perhaps with a Split Shot Aspect, we could set all of our abilities to hit 2 mobs within a certain range of each other.

It's impossible to judge a Hunter's performance on any fight with cleaving based combat as we're simply not designed to cleave. You see, if they boost our single-target dps to the point where we compete directly on these fights, our single target dps will be astronomically high compared to any other class. The design of Hunter atm is definitely a problem though, since Blizzard is focusing on these multi-target fights.

[Dracodraco]

An idea that Rogerbrown mentioned on the hunting party podcast recently, was to add an aspect ala blade flurry, that'd let your auto attacks hit two targets (or, I guess, other shots too depending on how strong they would want it to be).
This would give us a choise between 15% ap for singletarget, and cleave damage on two targets through the aspects.
If they wanted to take it one step further, they could lower the ICD on BA-Lock and Load, and let it be spamable (no cooldown) and you could keep it up on more target than one - a full focus bar would still only allow for 3 BA's, and you'd have to balance keeping BA/Serpent sting up on targets, while using explosive shot LNL charges. It'd make for a very interesting spec, and all of a sudden, we'd have:
Singletarget, Beast Mastery.
Cleave, Marksmanship.
Multidotting/aoe, Survival.

Because I think we can all agree that what we miss the MOST is utility, not dps. If we had the same multidot capabilities, or cleave capabilities, as other classes has, our dps would be fine as it is right now.

Alternatively, the aspect could have different functions depending on what spec you're in:
Beast mastery activates beast cleave by default and makes it work off of all pet attacks (including kill command). Constant low AOE without spending focus on multishots, along with sudden bursts through KC.
MM activates a blade-flurry like cleave (original idea basicly) to two targets.
Surv makes explosive shot's last charge explode to all mobs in X yards radius (thus you would want to smash explosive shots on different targets in aoe situations so as to not extend the shot, in case of lock and load procs).

[DarkPhoenix]

Got to love the amount of non hunters coming onto the board as of late saying "just be happy with what you have".

[Warrada]

I acctualy loved this idea... I think it could be a solution to our miss of Cleave/multidoting...

This could be perfect and also easy to balance for Blizzard if they use the same system they do on 'Fire and Brimstone' for Destro Locks, where they replace the spell for another with the same name, but with different damage formulas (if needed).

So, they could just add an 'Aspect of something' that once activated replaces Kill comand/Quimera Shot/Explosive shot for versions without CD (or a short one) that we could spam for Cleave situations for 2-3 targets, at 4, we would have to go back to 'Hawk' and do our current AOE rotation.

Give cleave to our 3 specs is not difficult, but make us a viable and competitive multi-dot spec (surv) could be more complicated... They would have to remove CD on black arrow and adjust its damage (maybe along with S Sting) to do a similar amount of damage that other classes dots do, so it could end up messing with Pvp...

[Deleted]

An idea that Rogerbrown mentioned on the hunting party podcast recently, was to add an aspect ala blade flurry, that'd let your auto attacks hit two targets (or, I guess, other shots too depending on how strong they would want it to be).
This would give us a choise between 15% ap for singletarget, and cleave damage on two targets through the aspects.
If they wanted to take it one step further, they could lower the ICD on BA-Lock and Load, and let it be spamable (no cooldown) and you could keep it up on more target than one - a full focus bar would still only allow for 3 BA's, and you'd have to balance keeping BA/Serpent sting up on targets, while using explosive shot LNL charges. It'd make for a very interesting spec, and all of a sudden, we'd have:
Singletarget, Beast Mastery.
Cleave, Marksmanship.
Multidotting/aoe, Survival.

Because I think we can all agree that what we miss the MOST is utility, not dps. If we had the same multidot capabilities, or cleave capabilities, as other classes has, our dps would be fine as it is right now.

Alternatively, the aspect could have different functions depending on what spec you're in:
Beast mastery activates beast cleave by default and makes it work off of all pet attacks (including kill command). Constant low AOE without spending focus on multishots, along with sudden bursts through KC.
MM activates a blade-flurry like cleave (original idea basicly) to two targets.
Surv makes explosive shot's last charge explode to all mobs in X yards radius (thus you would want to smash explosive shots on different targets in aoe situations so as to not extend the shot, in case of lock and load procs).

Funny at the start of expansion i tried to tell you, that we need atleast one spec to deal proper multi target damage, and you told me

#1 Hunters are fine.
#2 Hunters are not a "cleave" class.

Now you suddenly come to the conclusion which others and i had several months ago.

Glad you changed your mind

Some posts from the pasts:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...3#post18637933
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...4#post18634374

[Dracodraco]

Funny at the start of expansion i tried to tell you, that we need atleast one spec to deal proper multi target damage, and you told me

#1 Hunters are fine.
#2 Hunters are not a "cleave" class.

Now you suddenly come to the conclusion which others and i had several months ago.

Glad you changed your mind

Some posts from the pasts:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...3#post18637933
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...4#post18634374

Yea, at this point, we are indeed in a bad state - I'll admit to that. Back then though, it wasn't as bad as it is now, as other classes (still) seem to scale better than hunters, even with our Aspect and Mark reworked. Back then, I was competing with most classes as surv, too - there's a point at around 485-490 gear level where we just start to fall horribly, horribly behind everything else.

[Deleted]

The removal of cooldown on BA is a no-brainer.

I heard Roger on HPP, he spoke very well. The new aspect idea was just something he made up on the spot I presume, it didn't sound like a great plan to me, especially given that GC openly hates aspects and is trying to remove them.

[Dracodraco]

The removal of cooldown on BA is a no-brainer.

I heard Roger on HPP, he spoke very well. The new aspect idea was just something he made up on the spot I presume, it didn't sound like a great plan to me, especially given that GC openly hates aspects and is trying to remove them.

I don't think he wants to remove aspects as such, but he doesn't want them to be something you just macro and forget - and obviously, with the movement vs DMG, and with the fact that you COULD do it, everyone did. Cleave vs singletarget aspect would be much more decision based, and something you wouldn't be able to macro, etc.

[Xiphias]

Aspect of the Hawk : 15% RAP
Aspect of the Tiger : Your Auto-Shots and Arcane Shots strike an additional nearby target for 80% of the regular damage.
Aspect of the Cheetah : Your movement speed is increased by 15%. (Does not daze or break on hit)

Then just replace Aspect of the Iron Hawk with something actually interesting. And give Hunters a version of Stampeding Roar in lieu of Aspect of the Pack. Or make it something like the Paladin passive that's always on now instead of being an Aura: "Pack Stalker : You and your nearby allies gain 8% increased movement and 16% increased mounted speed while not in combat."