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  1. #1

    Question for raid/guild leaders about new apps

    At your level and set goals of gameplay, what is the most critical quality in a new raid applicant? Basically.. what is the most important trait you are looking for in this new team member?

    Some demographics would be great. (I am going to collate your answers into an article to help raid apps succeed in the apping process)

    COPY / PASTE in reply. Thanks!
    * GM or Raid Leader?
    * Guild rank in current tier:
    Main's name:
    Guild Name:
    What is the most important trait you are looking for in this new team member?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by jfragment View Post
    I am going to collate your answers into an article to help raid apps succeed in the apping process
    That may just show people what to lie about...
    Great idea, but it may still go bad

    As my guild has gone to hell and cant get raids started at all(cant raid with 1 tank, 3 dps and no healers), and cant get any recruits, im not going to answer your question
    You cannot trust, nor take seriously, an adult male without facial hair.Boys have no facial hair and boys are not men.
    ╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  3. #3
    Their UI, you can tell so much about a player from their UI.

  4. #4
    As an aside Zoom. Why did your guild go to hell? If you had a chance to redo everything, what could you have changed to reverse the guild's current state? - Thanks! J
    Being generally horrible but helpful since Molten Core;
    When leading was more about managing bathroom breaks than boss mechanics.
    http://www.ihazlead.com - Raid leading guides, tutorials, and videos.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CptAwesome View Post
    Their UI, you can tell so much about a player from their UI.
    So true, and anyone who says "I don't know how to take a screenshot" is an instant decline.

  6. #6
    How well they answer the questions and their UI generally will tell you a great deal about an applicant.

  7. #7
    What specifically are you looking for in a UI? Clean? Containing certain addons?
    Being generally horrible but helpful since Molten Core;
    When leading was more about managing bathroom breaks than boss mechanics.
    http://www.ihazlead.com - Raid leading guides, tutorials, and videos.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jfragment View Post
    What specifically are you looking for in a UI? Clean? Containing certain addons?
    One where there screen doesn't look like - http://arewenewatthis.files.wordpres...06/worstui.jpg

    Generally people that spend time setting up a custom UI know more about the game/their class (Speaking from experience recruiting raiders).

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jfragment View Post
    What specifically are you looking for in a UI? Clean? Containing certain addons?
    Not looking for addons so much as they have the information to get the job done effectively. That normally means effective keybinds that could actually be used (if I see a rogue with sinister strike bound to 'p' or something they're clearly just trying to pretend they keybind or something because you'd never actually use that), a non-cluttered (or logically cluttered) layout that leaves plenty of room to see things happening on screen.

    As Hedley pointed out I would rather see a default UI with good keybinds (and raidframes pulled out nicely if needed) then a UI with all the information you could possibly want from every addon under the sun but with no room to actually see.


    To sum it up in one word I look for an 'efficient' UI, it might not be one I'd ever want to use but if I can see some thought has went into laying it out it's fine by me.

  10. #10
    Not a GM or raid leader right now, however I was an officer in my last guild (7/7H FL and 8/8H DS).

    UI is definitely big. If it's messy or not suited to their role it's generally a decline unless they have amazing logs. I looked through all of their relevant logs and compared them to our own, looking mainly at how many times they were hit by engulfing flames, died to Fading Light, if they ever got hit by an ice wall on hagara, that kind of stuff. If their failure rate was higher than my guilds average it's pretty much an auto decline.

    How they answer the questions is big as well. I want well thought out answers, as long as they need to be for the recruit to get their point across. I know nothing about this person; they must now convince me they are amazing at this game. Most don't do that.

  11. #11
    As a follow up Frozen. At the rag HM level, do you require the applicants to have logs? If they don't is that a sure sign they can't raid at your level? How do you handle that?
    Being generally horrible but helpful since Molten Core;
    When leading was more about managing bathroom breaks than boss mechanics.
    http://www.ihazlead.com - Raid leading guides, tutorials, and videos.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jfragment View Post
    As a follow up Frozen. At the rag HM level, do you require the applicants to have logs? If they don't is that a sure sign they can't raid at your level? How do you handle that?
    I can jump in and answer that question. Simply put, some amazing raiders are stuck in crap guilds that don't progress as far as other guilds. You have to look at the information you are provided with. If they are 4/6 HM, you look at those 4 bosses they have done to see how they are performing.

  13. #13
    Far too many things to list them all, but generally I want to see they have intelligent keybinds and if the UI gives them enough information to make decisions and react to things that are happening to the raid.

    I also want to see that it is set up in such a way that they can actually see the whole fight and not just their own characters ass which is also covered in combat text.

    Here's an example I pulled out of the UI thread.

    http://www.abload.de/img/raidui93sjd.jpg

    Poor bindings, text everywhere, poor raid display, tiny DBM and spell timers in silly places, tiny action buttons that are obviously being clicked, chat is hard to read, mage without a damage meter, 50MB of memory being used, standard tooltips, why are there 4 unit frames all showing Ragnaros?, awful debuff tracking, etc etc. Basically, everything is wrong.

  14. #14
    * GM or Raid Leader? Both
    * Guild rank in current tier: US 104
    Main's name: Dannath
    Guild Name: Good Riddance
    What is the most important trait you are looking for in this new team member?

    We make sure that any new app is up to our minimum standards, gear in order etc.
    Checking worldoflogs is very important too, making sure that they have atleast decent numbers relative to their progression and gear.
    After that we get the applicant in voice chat and chat try to be clear on a few things, our loot system etc

  15. #15
    So far I'm seeing that a good UI shows you, the evaluator, a lot more about a person's ability and experience. That being said, is this a good indicator of an important trait or is THIS the important trait? For example, the number one thing we look for above all else is personality. We believe skill can be taught. What is your req above all else, why?
    Being generally horrible but helpful since Molten Core;
    When leading was more about managing bathroom breaks than boss mechanics.
    http://www.ihazlead.com - Raid leading guides, tutorials, and videos.

  16. #16
    Speaking as a former raid leader/GM for a pretty high end guild, I don't think a UI is the end-all-be-all everyone is making it out to be. Seeing someone's UI tend to give you a good picture about stuff, but to judge if they are recruit-able solely from it? That's a pretty shallow way of recruiting. I have had my share of people with good UI that perform poorly (especially since making a good UI is as easy as downloading a mod these days), and people with default Blizzard UI who were good. Not to say it doesn't go the other way around either, but again, recruiting based on UI is just a very lazy and poor way to recruit someone. No offense.

    Honestly, there's plenty of tools now that help you recruit. Something as simple as the armory to check the basic stuff like how dedicated he is on rep/enchants etc, and then the more advance stuff like world of logs to check performance on a fight or whether his rotation is being done right and he's simply held back by gear. Of course, even after all the extra stuff like their apps and interviews etc, it's really going to come down to just seeing how he performs in your guild, both raid-wise and personality wise. I would say having a personality that meshes well with your guild is one of the more important things a recruit can have.

    Skill can be taught like you said, but depending on what you are aiming for as a guild, you might not have the time to wait for someone to develop, or the person in question may not take well to criticism.
    Last edited by Dawnrage; 2012-11-20 at 12:37 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    Speaking as a former raid leader/GM for a pretty high end guild, I don't think a UI is the end-all-be-all everyone is making it out to be. Seeing someone's UI tend to give you a good picture about stuff, but to judge if they are recruit-able solely from it? That's a pretty shallow way of recruiting. I have had my share of people with good UI that perform poorly (especially since making a good UI is as easy as downloading a mod these days), and people with default Blizzard UI who were good. Not to say it doesn't go the other way around either, but again, recruiting based on UI is just a very lazy and poor way to recruit someone. No offense.

    Honestly, there's plenty of tools now that help you recruit. Something as simple as the armory to check the basic stuff like how dedicated he is on rep/enchants etc, and then the more advance stuff like world of logs to check performance on a fight or whether his rotation is being done right and he's simply held back by gear. Of course, even after all the extra stuff like their apps and interviews etc, it's really going to come down to just seeing how he performs in your guild, both raid-wise and personality wise. I would say having a personality that meshes well with your guild is one of the more important things a recruit can have.

    Skill can be taught like you said, but depending on what you are aiming for as a guild, you might not have the time to wait for someone to develop, or the person in question may not take well to criticism.
    I don't think anyone said the UI is the end-all-be-all thing that is taken into account when looking at applications.

    The bolded part is the most accurate way to find out how good/well a person fits with your guild.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jfragment View Post
    As a follow up Frozen. At the rag HM level, do you require the applicants to have logs? If they don't is that a sure sign they can't raid at your level? How do you handle that?
    If they have no logs of heroic content they can get logs from LFR/alt raids etc. If they still don't come up with logs then it's a decline because that' just lazy. Anyone can upload a log quickly.

  19. #19
    DPS: logs
    Healer: past raid experience (logs are nice to check the spells they're using, but ranks & HPS are mostly meaningless)
    Tank: both of the above

    To be honest I don't care a great deal about any of the other crap. From an application standpoint I just care about proven ability. Sure attitude matters, and whether they're committed, but that becomes obvious when raiding with the person - plus someone can say anything on paper.
    Last edited by Halaberiel; 2012-11-20 at 05:44 AM.

  20. #20
    So with a bit of a twist in the article's intended focus (perfectly fine and not wholely unexpected) can any of you post an ideal or acceptable UI that would pass your "smell" test? I've seen a few posted that certainly have not but it would be great to get a few examples from the folks that listed this as something meaningful to their decision process.
    Being generally horrible but helpful since Molten Core;
    When leading was more about managing bathroom breaks than boss mechanics.
    http://www.ihazlead.com - Raid leading guides, tutorials, and videos.

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