New Ret PvP gemming?

[Tangra]

So now that PvP Power no longer increases healing, and also weapons now give quite a bit more PvP Power, does anyone have a guess as to how much the value of PvP power has dropped, and what should we be gemming? Both changes should make STR more valuable, since it now increases healing, and also because at a certain point PvP power becomes worse than STR if you have too much PvP Power and too little STR... but what the exact cut-offs are is hard to tell.

[Deleted]

It might be a stop gap solution for now until Blizzard solve the problem, but our heals won't scale as well as our health unless Blizz made the gems better every season, which would benefit other classes more, and stacking strength still won't make up for the loss of healing from the PVP power nerf.

Plus the PVP gear is already loaded with PVP Power.

[Terahertz]

This might be a bit unrelated to retri paladins. But I find it to be unfair that hybrid classes like retri paladins, feral druids and enhancement shamans now have to (presumed) change their gems to agility because of the PvP power nerf.

Blizzard should've just nerfed the effectiveness of PvP power healing for hybrids by 50%~ so that we would be doing like 20% less healing. Now pure DPS classes will completely wreck us. Or at least feral/enha shamans because they relied a lot more on selfheals.

[Reith]

Might be better off just always going resilience now... but I'm not an authority on this, by any means.

[mmmmmmmBacon]

Switching to strength is a small buff to our healing and a massive drop to our damage from pvp power. Resilience is probably a lot more important now that they buffed the weapons by another 9% pvp power, but I'm skeptical on regemming as of now because I am cheap.

Just gotta suck up this loss in healing until we get compensated. Don't hold your breath though.

[Deleted]

Seems this might the last nail in the coffin (for now) for retris. The real reason to take retris were nice offheals, utility and some decent burst. If they gut 1/3 of what we do, it will be hard to keep a place in decent teams. My team mates are asking me to go DK now to make it (a lot) easier to go higher.

[gildra]

Seems this might the last nail in the coffin (for now) for retris. The real reason to take retris were nice offheals, utility and some decent burst. If they gut 1/3 of what we do, it will be hard to keep a place in decent teams. My team mates are asking me to go DK now to make it (a lot) easier to go higher.

first question of my rbg team was "so what class are you going to reroll?".

[Deleted]

first question of my rbg team was "so what class are you going to reroll?".

Yeah, I go with my lock in our RBG team since rets never were good enough, imo, for higher rated RBGs. For 3s arena with mage and healer it was quite ok. Dished out decent damage and could offheal decently while tossing hof/hop on team mates. Even then my combined healing + damage would never go above the a warrior or DKs damage alone, and they heal quite a bit too. With even less healing I can't say with a straight face I can stay ret anymore. Either I go lvl my DK or respec holy for our 3s team and swap with the priest to do damage.

[Deleted]

This might be a bit unrelated to retri paladins. But I find it to be unfair that hybrid classes like retri paladins, feral druids and enhancement shamans now have to (presumed) change their gems to agility because of the PvP power nerf.

Blizzard should've just nerfed the effectiveness of PvP power healing for hybrids by 50%~ so that we would be doing like 20% less healing. Now pure DPS classes will completely wreck us. Or at least feral/enha shamans because they relied a lot more on selfheals.

Shadow priests, moonkins and even ferals were doing too much healing with PVP Power so it had to be nerfed. However, ret was always meant to be a warrior/healer, so the nerf accidentally effected us.

Blizz will have to compensate somehow via talents otherwise ret is finished.

[Deleted]

What did they do to PvP power other than nerf the shit out of our healing? Yesterday I had ~37% PvP power while stacking resil gems, now I have 46%.

[Eon Drache]

What did they do to PvP power other than nerf the shit out of our healing? Yesterday I had ~37% PvP power while stacking resil gems, now I have 46%.

increased the amount on the PvP weapons.

[Deleted]

Does someone have a definitive answer regarding this?

Even gemming for strength and using a strength trinket (as human) doesn't compensate for the loss of healing.

So what are we supposed to do?

[Eon Drache]

Does someone have a definitive answer regarding this?

Even gemming for strength and using a strength trinket (as human) doesn't compensate for the loss of healing.

So what are we supposed to do?

If you die to quick, get more resill. If you don't die that quick, but can't kill a healer, get more PvP power.

[Deleted]

If you die to quick, get more resill. If you don't die that quick, but can't kill a healer, get more PvP power.

This doesn't answer my question.

So am I supposed to accept the loss of healing?

[Malthanis]

This doesn't answer my question.

So am I supposed to accept the loss of healing?

For the moment, yes. There is definitely going to be fallout from this change, and I think they'll be giving some form of compensation for it. The only issue is that they don't see the problem yet, which is probably from a small data pool. Internal and PTR testing will never give the same quality of data as when a change is released on the live servers.

[Vash The Stampede]

Does someone have a definitive answer regarding this?

Even gemming for strength and using a strength trinket (as human) doesn't compensate for the loss of healing.

So what are we supposed to do?

Probably best to continue gem PvP Power. I'm thinking about switching over to strength gems myself, but I'd imagine that increase in healing won't compensate for the loss of damage. As it is Ret doesn't have burst, so going pure strength will hurt us even worse.

Just be smart for now and continue to gear up. I pretty much realized that I have to ask for handouts if I wanna get my conquest points for the week. Hopefully Blizzard will compensate us with a hot fix, cause I'm not waiting till patch 5.2 for a fix.

[Freia]

Shadow priests, moonkins and even ferals were doing too much healing with PVP Power so it had to be nerfed. However, ret was always meant to be a warrior/healer, so the nerf accidentally effected us.

Blizz will have to compensate somehow via talents otherwise ret is finished.

It was not an accident that it affected ret. Ghostcrawler made a post saying that rets were doing too much healing as well. What we have now was intended.

[Tangra]

It was not an accident that it affected ret. Ghostcrawler made a post saying that rets were doing too much healing as well. What we have now was intended.

Well it's definitely not an accident, however, Ghostcrawler and other Blizzard posters have also mentioned Spriests and other off-healers much more ften than they have Ret, which can be taken as an indication that they at least partially acknowledge that they gave an equal nerf to specs that were not performing equally. Some consideration for compensation has to be somewhere in their plans, but they don't seem to want to discuss it yet. They can't be so dense that they believe that every off-healer in the game just magically needed the exact same nerf. Ret self-healing is just pathetic, and we can hope that they see this in the coming weeks.

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 05:14 PM ----------

Shadow priests, moonkins and even ferals were doing too much healing with PVP Power so it had to be nerfed. However, ret was always meant to be a warrior/healer, so the nerf accidentally effected us.

Blizz will have to compensate somehow via talents otherwise ret is finished.

Well hopefully not via talents, since Holy Paladins don't need a buff. The best option is probably to just buff the healing bonus given by Sword of Light, and if they are worried about selfless healer being too good, then they can just buff the WoG bonus. It would also make sense to give us the Cataclysm version of Sacred Shield back, and call it something else since Sacred Shield is back in the game as a talent, or just give Ret's a healing received bonus when below 50% health or something along those lines.

[Freia]

Well it's definitely not an accident, however, Ghostcrawler and other Blizzard posters have also mentioned Spriests and other off-healers much more ften than they have Ret, which can be taken as an indication that they at least partially acknowledge that they gave an equal nerf to specs that were not performing equally. Some consideration for compensation has to be somewhere in their plans, but they don't seem to want to discuss it yet.

"because we think Ret in PvP is fine, just with too much healing. Often players don't want a response - they want to argue."
Ghostcrawler on his twitter.

[Tangra]

"because we think Ret in PvP is fine, just with too much healing. Often players don't want a response - they want to argue."
Ghostcrawler on his twitter.

Well, I guess he'll just have to eat his words in a few weeks... as they begin to admit that the off-healer nerf was based almost purely on ideology and philosophy, rather than any hard evidence from actual PvP. Anyone with any real PvP experience knows that the only thing that made Ret PvP even remotely fine was said healing, without it the spec is back to being mediocre at best, and viable only when carried by other specs.

As I have said in previous posts, they also based the nerf on a laughably superficial analysis of overall healing meters, rather than considering that off-healers have no where near the burst healing and versatility of real healers, sure off-specs can compete on sustained healing when no one is bothering them, but when placed under even the slightest amount of pressure, the potency of a real healing toolbox becomes much more evident. I just wish they would augment their PvP balance staff with some real PvPers, rather than crappy and naive theorycrafters.