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  1. #61
    Stood in the Fire Chiasmus's Avatar
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    The problem with Mistweavers is that they're built as a DPS spec; they're the only healing spec that follows an exact priority rotation when AoE healing. Prior to the patch the spec has had significant weaknesses that those playing at a lower level/have no experience with it could notice. Those weaknesses included:

    • Inability to control who you heal
    • Next to no utility
    • No noteworthy raid cooldown

    The only reason you would ever bring a Mistweaver to an encounter as a 25 man guild would be for their throughput. Patch 5.1 adjusted Mistweaver numbers (which were undeniably too high), but did not provide any reworking or fixing of our cooldowns. The rather heavy-handed adjustments mean that Mistweavers can barely compete with other healers on certain fights, and equal out with others on fights where we previously excelled (Garalon, WotE). Probably the worst part about the current scenario is that Blizzard seem blissfully unaware of the actual state of Mistweavers. Instead they balance the class around the clueless majority, who call for nerfs because Monks were topping the HPS meters in their oh-so-important LFR runs.

    Having rerolled a Mistweaver from a Restoration Shaman, it's absolutely staggering to see the exact same mistakes being repeated again. Blizzard balances nearly every fight around coordination of raid cooldowns, then makes a new healer spec without any (or gives them one, then makes it useless in 25 mans two days into heroic progression). Now Restoration Shamans have two raid cooldowns, one throughput cooldown, and one mana cooldown while Mistweavers have nothing.

    In terms of how Mistweaver is in 5.1, the only answer is clunky. Renewing Mist is more broken than before the "responsiveness" fix and is so unreliable the viability of Uplift is relegated to situations where you're insanely lucky with jumps. For pure throughput, Spinning Crane Kick now trumps Jab as the best chi generator given Uplift's unreliability, and Chi Burst trumps Uplift unless you miraculously manage to get eight or more Renewing Mists up. The rotation is pretty much just as boring as it always was, you're just using different skills to net optimal numbers.

    All I can say is, I'm very glad to be moving away from the spec as soon as I can, hopefully there will be a significant rework of the spec before the next raiding tier. Best of luck to anyone who sticks with it despite the significant shortcomings.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Chiasmus View Post
    The problem with Mistweavers is that they're built as a DPS spec;[*]Inability to control who you heal
    Pretty much this.
    For fistweaver you play like a DPS who incidentaly blanket heals the raid, playing it as traditional healer just feels like a gimped proper healer, It's an interesting attempt at a new mechanic but I cant see this being the final iteration. I imagine MW'ers are going to radically change a few times more before we end getting our final playstyle.

    Edit: and yup at the moment the playstyle is really really dull which is a crying shame.
    Last edited by rakkar; 2012-11-29 at 11:38 AM.

  3. #63
    IM actualy not even healing on fights anymore unless its progression. We were running with 2 Disc priests last night and the amount of absorbs they do it retarded. There wasnt anything to heal so i just dpsed in healer spec for half the night.

    ReM jumping to pets combined with the reduction in jumps means that its near worthless. Its incredibly rare to see more then 5 up at a time and ive even had my first 3 ReM not jump to a single player on Garalon.
    This also directely impacts Uplift. With so low uplift targets the spell is barely worth casting your more likely to hit 3 people with a random Chi Burst which does more healing.

    As others have said your healing was OP and needed adjusting but they gutted our raid healing without compensating our utility or even giving us directed Aoe Heals.
    We need a prayer of mending equivalent if blizzard wants to keep ReM the way it is now. instead of jab-jab-uplift there moving us to SCK-SCK-Chi Burst which is even more mindnumbing.

  4. #64
    I'm done with raiding thanks to this patch. As someone said, not being able to control who you heal is just retarded. I raid in a 10m guild so RnM was usually on most of the raid for aoe healing required through uplift but now it's almost useless. I get that our AoE was too powerful but being nerfed to the ground is slightly over the top. I'd happily trade the mana they've given us back for the ability to heal a raid effectively, even if it isn't as potent as it was before.

    I think they should revert the change to RnM but change it so that if it's on over 10 people (even 8) it is less effective, and Uplift is the same. That would solve the problem in 25s being overpowered and it wouldn't seriously affect 10m as it has.

  5. #65
    Lol ReM jumping on army of dead. But it's okay they changed zen flight and enveloping mist icons11!
    Meanwhile, disc priest in greens triviliazing all encounters with lol spirit shell. That's balanced.

  6. #66
    I don't know why you're saying that disc are op.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5521&e=5968

    Really don't have a clue.

  7. #67
    i've experienced a slight nerf over my hps, but not as much as I thought (10m raids) . On the other hand, even if I abuse Surging Mists I hardly go oom and if I do, i can easy recover it since mana tea charges go crazy up

  8. #68
    Field Marshal Cathaia's Avatar
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    If ReM just jumped reliably, I think I would not mind the cut of charges too much now, but as people have already pointed out, it is even worse with the jumps now than it has been before. As my group failed on signs, I didn't have the "joy" of healing in our 10man yet this reset, but seeing how horrible the spread was in LFR (it was reliably NOT on 6 people after 2 ReM casts), I am not looking forward to raiding 10 now, especially as we had to rely a lot on MW throughput before with 2-healing most fights.

    Just something positive as a sidenote, for challenge modes (or general 5man content) I don't feel like much changed for me. I do the same as before and just rely on the DK tank to heal himself a little more.
    Still not getting any younger!

  9. #69
    I reforged to the new haste breakpoint of 4718 ( i think ) in serpent stance and was quite happy with the additional chi generation it brought. SM feels not MUCH more reliable but it ticks faster so with the new 33% chance it just feels better. My overall hps on the first 3 Heroic MSV fights we did yesterday in 25m was finally right inbetween our other healers with disc priest far ahead. I really dislike the change to RnM and probably won't bother using uplift anymore except for Gara'jal or Bladelord dolls or windstep targets.
    I was topping numbers not THAT hard but quite hard in my 25 man group even on progression while never dying, now i am dpsing for spirit kings 25 hc progression. Feelsbatman.jpg

  10. #70
    I dont see any reason to bring a MW to 25m raid. On the begin of the exp i was between my priest and monk. So went with monk, now i am dissapoint.
    The only thing we can do right now is complain no the blizzard forums.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Woofix View Post
    I don't know why you're saying that disc are op.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5521&e=5968

    Really don't have a clue.
    Hi from KT (ex Berserkers MW here, just left, bad guild is bad).

    Anyway, glad I had to pause my wow carrier, these MW changes are just stupid. Only thing we had was our healing thoughput, and it was taken away. As a raid leader I see absolutly no reason to bring a Mistweaver in a raid now. No raid/mana/tank cooldown. Just stay at Orgrimmar dude, we have 3 disc who will do your job better.
    Yeah thanks.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Xio View Post
    I dont see any reason to bring a MW to 25m raid. On the begin of the exp i was between my priest and monk. So went with monk, now i am dissapoint.
    The only thing we can do right now is complain no the blizzard forums.
    This is on heroic:

    Shek'zeer:
    pre-patch: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11386&e=12263
    post-patch (last night): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=1394&e=2279

    Depressing.

  13. #73
    We should send this numbers to blizzard, because the tests are on live servers... :-(

  14. #74
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Disc priests are bugged right now and Spirit Shell is producing way more absorption than they should be... and you run with three of them. I think you will see better numbers once the bug with Disc priests is fixed. You weren't doing bad #s compared to the non-disc priests in your raid (before or after patch), and the broken disc priest bubbles were eating into everyone's healing numbers.

    I saw competitive numbers with everyone else on terrace last night, but not way higher like they were previously. Now, hopefully we can get some boosts to Life Cocoon and a defensive raid cooldown.

  15. #75
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xio View Post
    I dont see any reason to bring a MW to 25m raid. On the begin of the exp i was between my priest and monk. So went with monk, now i am dissapoint.
    The only thing we can do right now is complain no the blizzard forums.
    Same, same, same.

    Priest was my main in Cataclysm and when I came back for MoP I didn't level it right away because the priest healing specs were in such a bad state, so I chose monk because it looked fun and interesting. Now I'm wishing I had chosen my priest afterall.

    Technically my priest is 90 now, I could gear her up and reroll her as my "main" but I'm terrified that the second I do, they'll realize their buff to discipline was too big and nerf it, and realize their nerf to mistweavers was too big and buff it and I'll be in the same situation all over again. Although, given the amount of time it took them to fix priests, I'm not too optimistic about how long it will take them to fix over-nerfing monks.

  16. #76
    They won't be able to add a raid cooldown without us being OP in 10 mans.

  17. #77
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    They won't be able to add a raid cooldown without us being OP in 10 mans.
    How does it make us any more or less OP than other healers? Sure, Uplift hits more of the raid and Revival doesn't target cap as much, but so does every other healer; Healing Rain, Chain Heal, Light of Dawn, Holy Radiance, Circle of Healing, Prayer of Healing, Wild Growth, Efflorescence (Swiftmend), Holy Word: Sanctuary, Prayer of Mending, Tranquility, Divine Hymn and Healing Tide all have greater effect relative to the size of the raid in 10 mans... And I'm probably missing something (i.e. any other aoe healing spell).

  18. #78
    The question is how to we draw Blizzard's attention to these issues?

    Issues so far:

    - Lack of raid CD (healing/mana/tank)

    - Overheal (Lack of control of who we heal)

    - Renewing Mist (Jump to pets, etc...)

    - Too much mana, not enough to spend it on

    - Terrible single target healers

    Anything else? Best way to draw light?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    They won't be able to add a raid cooldown without us being OP in 10 mans.
    Ok no raid cd.... so give me back my ReM 1+3 targets. All will be happy with that.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX View Post
    Disc priests are bugged right now and Spirit Shell is producing way more absorption than they should be... and you run with three of them. I think you will see better numbers once the bug with Disc priests is fixed. You weren't doing bad #s compared to the non-disc priests in your raid (before or after patch), and the broken disc priest bubbles were eating into everyone's healing numbers.

    I saw competitive numbers with everyone else on terrace last night, but not way higher like they were previously. Now, hopefully we can get some boosts to Life Cocoon and a defensive raid cooldown.
    this, i wish people would stop posting disc logs from this week. pick some from previous weeks if you want to make a point.

    spirit shell currently maintaining 100% crit modifier for all casts (not intended)

    it looks like it has been hotfixed

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