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  1. #841
    Ok so i have gotten the reactions i thought that i would. So explain to me why i need to believe its ok? Even if the country rattified it that homosexuals could get married do i have to agree with it? I really was testing to see the reaction i got. I was correct in what i thought too. Why is it wrong based off my religous beliefs to be against it. As you said marriage has been around a long time so has the bible. Now based off our laws your right it should be changed but freedom of religion allows me to basically ignore the marriage personally as it is against my religion. But you would still call me a bigot for my religous beliefs? This is where i have a problem with it. You would still discriminate against me for my beliefs even if you could do it but i opposed it. My rrligion does not put down races or woman but because my religion states directly that homosexual relations goes against god i mean its pretty clear you would discriminate and say im a bigot. Its like how words work i cant use the "N" word but blacks can. Gay people can use the old derogatory words but i cant how is this equal?

  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Ok so i have gotten the reactions i thought that i would. So explain to me why i need to believe its ok? Even if the country rattified it that homosexuals could get married do i have to agree with it? I really was testing to see the reaction i got. I was correct in what i thought too. Why is it wrong based off my religous beliefs to be against it. As you said marriage has been around a long time so has the bible. Now based off our laws your right it should be changed but freedom of religion allows me to basically ignore the marriage personally as it is against my religion. But you would still call me a bigot for my religous beliefs? This is where i have a problem with it. You would still discriminate against me for my beliefs even if you could do it but i opposed it. My rrligion does not put down races or woman but because my religion states directly that homosexual relations goes against god i mean its pretty clear you would discriminate and say im a bigot. Its like how words work i cant use the "N" word but blacks can. Gay people can use the old derogatory words but i cant how is this equal?
    It is perfectly fine for you to be against it. It is not fine for your beliefs to dictate what others can do with their lives when they cause no harm.

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  3. #843
    Herald of the Titans Christan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collegeguy View Post
    And what happens when aliens arrive? You going to deny me my right?
    ohh my, i can just imagine the wedding night stories, count me in!

    will i be put in chains? count me in double then!
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by Faithshield View Post
    I realise that religions do not approve, and they feel they own 'Marriage', but they do not. At the end of the day if marriage was purely a religious and symbolic ceremony, which it isn't, then this argument simply wouldn't exist. Its only because marriage offers civil rights from the state that this is an issue at all.
    This is actually what infuriates me the most. The only real reason this even happens is because of the word.

    Even then, the whole thing is still hypocritical. If Christian's "own" the term marriage, then how come I can go into a courthouse and sign a paper saying I am married as an Atheist? I could be a SATANIST and get married to a fellow Satanist, and for some reason the religious think that is perfectly fine as long as the person I marry is not another dude.

  5. #845
    Scarab Lord Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    So explain to me why i need to believe its ok?
    You don't have to believe it is ok. You don't have to agree with it. You cannot make it illegal because that is discrimination. I don't understand why you don't seem to get the difference there.

    You can believe left handed albinos deserve death, but you don't get to kill them. See the difference?

    But you would still call me a bigot for my religous beliefs?
    Yes.
    The definition of bigot:

    big·ot

    [big-uh t] Show IPA

    nouna person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.



    You would still discriminate against me for my beliefs even if you could do it but i opposed it.
    Intolerance of intolerance is not discrimination or bigotry.

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Ok so i have gotten the reactions i thought that i would. So explain to me why i need to believe its ok? Even if the country rattified it that homosexuals could get married do i have to agree with it? I really was testing to see the reaction i got. I was correct in what i thought too. Why is it wrong based off my religous beliefs to be against it. As you said marriage has been around a long time so has the bible. Now based off our laws your right it should be changed but freedom of religion allows me to basically ignore the marriage personally as it is against my religion. But you would still call me a bigot for my religous beliefs? This is where i have a problem with it. You would still discriminate against me for my beliefs even if you could do it but i opposed it. My rrligion does not put down races or woman but because my religion states directly that homosexual relations goes against god i mean its pretty clear you would discriminate and say im a bigot. Its like how words work i cant use the "N" word but blacks can. Gay people can use the old derogatory words but i cant how is this equal?
    The Bible says a lot of things, and I'm afraid marriage simply hasn't always existed in the form that it has today. American laws on this come largely from their British heritage, and if you only have to look at British history to see how marriage has evolved over the centuries. At one point you could only get married in England at a Church and by the Church of England, regardless as to what religion you belonged to. At another point, marriages weren't even registered by the state it was just an informal vow taken by people who cohabited. So I'm sorry but big white religious weddings have not always been around since the dawn of time.

    Regardless to that, there is a difference between saying 'our Church will not undertake gay marriages' and 'gay couples should not legally be able to marry anywhere within our country'. Religious freedom is fine, until it tries to dictate to everyone.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  7. #847
    I really was trying to push buttons which is why i never used a dirogatory term but you went right there. I find being called a bigot because of my religous beliefs as bad as calling a gay a faggot which i will never do out of respect. You immidatley basically committed a hate crime against my freedom of religous practice. Hense why you get met with such resistance. I keep myself civil you didnt and until rational non hateful minds can meet youll win when people just go fine you know what just take it and leave me alone to still call it a sin but you wont stop there. Slavery was not a religous issue but societies issue same with womans rights. People get scared by how strong you come off that your going to try and throw it in our face. If the country allows it are you then allowed to enter my church married or can we throw you out? The issue is more complicated than a simple government issue.

  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    I really was trying to push buttons which is why i never used a dirogatory term but you went right there. I find being called a bigot because of my religous beliefs as bad as calling a gay a faggot which i will never do out of respect. You immidatley basically committed a hate crime against my freedom of religous practice. Hense why you get met with such resistance. I keep myself civil you didnt and until rational non hateful minds can meet youll win when people just go fine you know what just take it and leave me alone to still call it a sin but you wont stop there. Slavery was not a religous issue but societies issue same with womans rights. People get scared by how strong you come off that your going to try and throw it in our face. If the country allows it are you then allowed to enter my church married or can we throw you out? The issue is more complicated than a simple government issue.
    If your religion teaches you to be a bigot, why should we sugar coat it for you?

    Your either a bigot, or not a bigot. There is no middle ground.

    Also you don't need to go to a church to get married, try again.
    Last edited by Purlina; 2012-11-29 at 07:23 PM.

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    This is actually what infuriates me the most. The only real reason this even happens is because of the word.

    Even then, the whole thing is still hypocritical. If Christian's "own" the term marriage, then how come I can go into a courthouse and sign a paper saying I am married as an Atheist? I could be a SATANIST and get married to a fellow Satanist, and for some reason the religious think that is perfectly fine as long as the person I marry is not another dude.
    In the UK we have 'Civil Partnerships' (ugly term in my opinion), and it was basically a very elaborate attempt to give gays marriage without using the word marriage, because it confers exactly the same rights and responsibilities. Personally I still think we should have just one term for all couples, because just by having one institution for straights, and another for gays, you are simply highlighting the difference and that is not great for social acceptance or discrimination. 'Separate but equal' - just like the race relations stuff in the US with separate schooling, and we all know how that worked out!
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  10. #850
    Scarab Lord Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    You immidatley basically committed a hate crime against my freedom of religous practice.
    Oh please. The fact you tried to equate what I said to a hate crime is insulting. Your victim complex is ridiculous.

    I quoted the definition of a bigot. You said that based on your religious beliefs you cannot tolerate or condone homosexuality in any form. That is the very definition of bigotry!

    No one likes being called a bigot, but if the shoe fits....

    Here is how you wouldn't be a bigot. If you said this:

    "I personally don't agree with same sex marriage, but I recognize that not everyone has the same beliefs I do. I acknowledge that I am not to judge others and to leave that in the hands of God. Therefore I will not attempt to outlaw things I don't agree with and trust in my savior that his will shall be done. It is not my place to impose my will on others."

    I keep myself civil
    You might think you were being civil, but you weren't. Telling people they are sinful people who aren't capable of being decent and causing the downfall of society is a far cry from civil.


    If the country allows it are you then allowed to enter my church married or can we throw you out?
    Churches should have the right to deny marrying whoever they want. Because that is the religious issue. Which has nothing to do with the legal issues being discussed in this thread.

    I think you need to take a good long look in the mirror. You seem to think you are sitting in this high throne of moral superiority where you are just lovingly pointing out your views...when in reality you are being quite hateful.

  11. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    I really was trying to push buttons which is why i never used a dirogatory term but you went right there. I find being called a bigot because of my religous beliefs as bad as calling a gay a faggot which i will never do out of respect. You immidatley basically committed a hate crime against my freedom of religous practice. Hense why you get met with such resistance. I keep myself civil you didnt and until rational non hateful minds can meet youll win when people just go fine you know what just take it and leave me alone to still call it a sin but you wont stop there. Slavery was not a religous issue but societies issue same with womans rights. People get scared by how strong you come off that your going to try and throw it in our face. If the country allows it are you then allowed to enter my church married or can we throw you out? The issue is more complicated than a simple government issue.
    Your church is perfectly allowed not to marry gay people in every state that has passed gay marriage. That is their right as a religious authority. They are not allowed to dictate that policy to the States, and demand that the states not recognize the union of two homosexuals. This is not hard to understand, and is directly from the Constitution.

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  12. #852
    Right on the bigot term but how would i be precieved if you called me a bigot in public? It would just be against gay people. If you look up nigger in the dictionary you get the same deal. As a white man even if i use it to call another white man i cant im racist. Its a slippery slope since this is such a religous issue. I agree though based off us law its not right. Let me say that again its not right. But i also believe based off my religion its not right and if you come into my church ill personally escort you out. Does that make me a bigot for not wanting you as a part of my religous beliefs and your allowed to call me names? Has a lot more to do with the way the community treats devout christians these days. Almost like your trying to take our beliefs away.

  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Right on the bigot term but how would i be precieved if you called me a bigot in public? It would just be against gay people. If you look up nigger in the dictionary you get the same deal. As a white man even if i use it to call another white man i cant im racist. Its a slippery slope since this is such a religous issue. I agree though based off us law its not right. Let me say that again its not right. But i also believe based off my religion its not right and if you come into my church ill personally escort you out. Does that make me a bigot for not wanting you as a part of my religous beliefs and your allowed to call me names? Has a lot more to do with the way the community treats devout christians these days. Almost like your trying to take our beliefs away.
    No, we are calling it like it is. If you are intolerant of people, you are a bigot by definition. You have every right to hold those beliefs, however, just like the Neo-Nazi's that regularly demonstrate nationwide. You simply aren't allowed to dictate law based on your bigotry.

    3DS Friend Code: 0146-9205-4817. Could show as either Chris or Chrysia.

  14. #854
    Mechagnome Sealed Shut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    Could it be? Have we finally run them out of arguments?
    unfortunately as is with many issues discussed here, there won't be any opinions being changed.
    I don't think gay marriage is wrong because of legal benefits, i think gay anything is wrong because it's made quite clear in the Bible that it's a sin.
    Whether you agree with that or not, doesn't change the fact that THAT is the reason why, and you aren't going to convince people to abandon their religion and suddenly accept homosexuality.
    Take away benefits for being married. People still won't be ok with gay marriage.

  15. #855
    Scarab Lord Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Right on the bigot term but how would i be precieved if you called me a bigot in public?
    I would imagine if we were having this exact conversation in public people would agree with me.

    But i also believe based off my religion its not right and if you come into my church ill personally escort you out. Does that make me a bigot for not wanting you as a part of my religous beliefs
    Let's try this again.

    The definition of bigot:

    big·ot

    [big-uh t] Show IPA

    nouna person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

    Also -- you'd kick me out of church? How very christian of you. Jesus would be proud.

    and your allowed to call me names?
    Yes. Because it is how you are acting. And you've done your share of name calling in this thread.

    Almost like your trying to take our beliefs away.
    get over your non existant persecution victim complex.

    It is disgusting. No one is trying to take your beliefs away. I have never once said you aren't entitled to believe what you believe. I have repeatedly said that you are not entitled to make those beliefs law and discriminate against others. You are entitled to say and believe whatever you want. Feel free. Go right on ahead.

    And I have every right to point out that those beliefs are bigoted.

  16. #856
    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Right on the bigot term but how would i be precieved if you called me a bigot in public? It would just be against gay people. If you look up nigger in the dictionary you get the same deal. As a white man even if i use it to call another white man i cant im racist. Its a slippery slope since this is such a religous issue. I agree though based off us law its not right. Let me say that again its not right. But i also believe based off my religion its not right and if you come into my church ill personally escort you out. Does that make me a bigot for not wanting you as a part of my religous beliefs and your allowed to call me names? Has a lot more to do with the way the community treats devout christians these days. Almost like your trying to take our beliefs away.
    It is perfectly legal to call someone a bigot, and it is perfectly legal to be racist or a homophobe.

    That's not the issue at hand...

  17. #857
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed Shut View Post
    unfortunately as is with many issues discussed here, there won't be any opinions being changed.
    I don't think gay marriage is wrong because of legal benefits, i think gay anything is wrong because it's made quite clear in the Bible that it's a sin.
    Whether you agree with that or not, doesn't change the fact that THAT is the reason why, and you aren't going to convince people to abandon their religion and suddenly accept homosexuality.
    Take away benefits for being married. People still won't be ok with gay marriage.
    The multitude of churches that currently perform and advocate gay marriage disagree.

    Also:

    3DS Friend Code: 0146-9205-4817. Could show as either Chris or Chrysia.

  18. #858
    Mechagnome Sealed Shut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    No, we are calling it like it is. If you are intolerant of people, you are a bigot by definition. You have every right to hold those beliefs, however, just like the Neo-Nazi's that regularly demonstrate nationwide. You simply aren't allowed to dictate law based on your bigotry.
    Everyone in the world is a bigot if that is your definition. You are intolerant of one side because they are intolerant of your side. it's a circle.

  19. #859
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunksee View Post
    Ok so i have gotten the reactions i thought that i would. So explain to me why i need to believe its ok? Even if the country rattified it that homosexuals could get married do i have to agree with it? I really was testing to see the reaction i got. I was correct in what i thought too. Why is it wrong based off my religous beliefs to be against it. As you said marriage has been around a long time so has the bible. Now based off our laws your right it should be changed but freedom of religion allows me to basically ignore the marriage personally as it is against my religion. But you would still call me a bigot for my religous beliefs? This is where i have a problem with it. You would still discriminate against me for my beliefs even if you could do it but i opposed it. My rrligion does not put down races or woman but because my religion states directly that homosexual relations goes against god i mean its pretty clear you would discriminate and say im a bigot. Its like how words work i cant use the "N" word but blacks can. Gay people can use the old derogatory words but i cant how is this equal?
    You don't have to agree with anything, but you also shouldn't be trying to keep other people from doing it without a rational basis.
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  20. #860
    Scarab Lord Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed Shut View Post
    i think gay anything is wrong because it's made quite clear in the Bible that it's a sin.
    Whether you agree with that or not, doesn't change the fact that THAT is the reason why, and you aren't going to convince people to abandon their religion and suddenly accept homosexuality.
    And that's fine. But we have separation of church and state in this country for a reason. Having religion be the basis for a law that restricts legal rights is a direct violation of that. That's the whole point of this debate.

    I'm totally fine with religions not accepting or marrying gays. That is their right and choice.

    But christianity isn't the only religion in this country, and it's time to stop acting like it is.

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