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  1. #1021
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenzing21 View Post
    Sigh. Marriage is a social construct, outside the parameters of gov't to interfere with, no matter how much drivvle you type.

    And to prove it, I'll wager everything I own vs everything you own that in the jurisdiction YOU live in, you can be married without a) filing paperwork and b) letting/telling/asking the gov't to get involved.

    I'll be expecting my super huge Fedex package any day now.
    What you're talking about has nothing to do with legality then. The law has everything to do with the type of marriage where you have to file paperwork, which is what homosexuals are trying to gain access to.

    Btw, I want nothing to do with your super huge package.
    Last edited by Reeve; 2012-11-30 at 10:19 PM.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by tenzing21 View Post
    Sigh. Marriage is a social construct, outside the parameters of gov't to interfere with, no matter how much drivvle you type.

    And to prove it, I'll wager everything I own vs everything you own that in the jurisdiction YOU live in, you can be married without a) filing paperwork and b) letting/telling/asking the gov't to get involved.

    I'll be expecting my super huge Fedex package any day now.
    Jesus, really? Could you be anymore condescending AND wrong?

    I will bet you everything I own vs everything you own that right now as a married straight man I have a few more additional rights/privileges than a homosexual male has because my social construct is, in fact, recognized by the state.

    FedEx or UPS...your choice.
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by tenzing21 View Post
    Sigh. Marriage is a social construct, outside the parameters of gov't to interfere with, no matter how much drivvle you type.

    And to prove it, I'll wager everything I own vs everything you own that in the jurisdiction YOU live in, you can be married without a) filing paperwork and b) letting/telling/asking the gov't to get involved.

    I'll be expecting my super huge Fedex package any day now.
    Yeah, marriage is a social construct. The currently accepted reason for marriage is to bring together two people who love each other.

    Also, in the the state of Utah, a marriage license is required for marriage. Other things are not recognized as marriages legally, and if you want to say that it doesn't need to be legal, then fuck you I'm married to a banana because I said so.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
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  4. #1024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethox View Post
    Actually, I only wanted to prove that this does not come out of self sacrifice and love for the other people's rights, but out of greed and hypocrisy.
    I don't really see self-sacrifice as a virtue, but that's neither here nor there. How do you know whether or not the lawsuit wasn't filed both because of a love for other people's rights AND out of greed? I'm not sure where your comment about hypocrisy is coming from.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by Waniou View Post
    Incidentally, as a Christian, it kinda depresses me to see so many other "Christians" out there who seem to have completely lost base with the message that Jesus was trying to get across. I really don't get what part of "Love your neighbour as you love yourself" is difficult to understand. Seriously, have any of you actually looked at what Jesus was like as a person? I'm sure that if he saw the way a lot of "Christians" treat gay people, he'd be incredibly ashamed.

    In any case, none of that really has any relevance on gay marriage anyway, because religion has no place in the law. Marriage has not been an exclusively religious ceremony for an extremely long time, unless you want to also make it illegal to be married outside a church, and for atheists to get married.

    Hang in there wan. You arn't alone. It depresses me because aswell because the christians who do follow this philosophy are not very vocal. I myself attend a church that openly accepts anyone reguardless of of sexual orientation race nationality or heck even religion. We dont shove our faith down others throat we simply have an open door policy. If you ask me about my faith I am happy to talk about it if you don't want to hear it that's great too. Many of us believe in letting people make that choice.

  6. #1026
    Wow, so much vitriol. I'm perfectly correct, and gov't has NO function regarding the legitimacy of marriage. I'm sorry that blows your gaskets, but it's the truth.

    My wager stands; in order to prove to you that gov't HAS NO INVOLVEMENT WITH MARRIAGE and that therefore, lawsuits brought to define marriage are moot, I'll wager everything I own vs. everything anyone of you owns that you can get married without a) filing paperwork or b) letting/telling/asking the gov't to get involved.

    I sure do enjoy being right; especially when I have to defend common law to people who DEMAND it's civil justice system and protections, then decide in the same breath that common law is not applicable when it doesn't suit them.

  7. #1027
    The fact that marriages are not just called partnerships (for parental, property, and tax purposes) by the government is the real problem. Some churches have very strick rules and should not be forced to change while at the same time, people should have the right to be treated fairly and equally by their government. Government should not have the right to make these decisions but instead be allowed to only record the partnership for the reasons mentioned earlier and stay the hell out of our lives.

  8. #1028
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenzing21 View Post
    Wow, so much vitriol. I'm perfectly correct, and gov't has NO function regarding the legitimacy of marriage. I'm sorry that blows your gaskets, but it's the truth.

    My wager stands; in order to prove to you that gov't HAS NO INVOLVEMENT WITH MARRIAGE and that therefore, lawsuits brought to define marriage are moot, I'll wager everything I own vs. everything anyone of you owns that you can get married without a) filing paperwork or b) letting/telling/asking the gov't to get involved.

    I sure do enjoy being right; especially when I have to defend common law to people who DEMAND it's civil justice system and protections, then decide in the same breath that common law is not applicable when it doesn't suit them.
    A common-law marriage still involves recognition by the government. Otherwise, gay couples could be married through living together for X number of years, but they can't because the state's definition of marriage applies.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  9. #1029
    Quote Originally Posted by tenzing21 View Post
    Sigh. Marriage is a social construct, outside the parameters of gov't to interfere with, no matter how much drivvle you type.

    And to prove it, I'll wager everything I own vs everything you own that in the jurisdiction YOU live in, you can be married without a) filing paperwork and b) letting/telling/asking the gov't to get involved.
    Um.

    In pretty much every state, any minister that performs a marriage must file the appropriate paperwork with one government agency or another. Sure, you can put a ring on your loved one and say you're married, but if something should happen to that person you would have no legal standing to do anything about it. Healthcare decisions, estates, custody, etc. I think that's a major reason why gay people are pushing so hard to have it legalized. Because they don't want to be treated like just another friend if/when something happens to their spouse.

    I have no idea where you're getting your information.

  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by tenzing21 View Post
    Wow, so much vitriol. I'm perfectly correct, and gov't has NO function regarding the legitimacy of marriage. I'm sorry that blows your gaskets, but it's the truth.

    My wager stands; in order to prove to you that gov't HAS NO INVOLVEMENT WITH MARRIAGE and that therefore, lawsuits brought to define marriage are moot, I'll wager everything I own vs. everything anyone of you owns that you can get married without a) filing paperwork or b) letting/telling/asking the gov't to get involved.

    I sure do enjoy being right; especially when I have to defend common law to people who DEMAND it's civil justice system and protections, then decide in the same breath that common law is not applicable when it doesn't suit them.
    There is no vitriol. You just think you are right and people are telling you that you aren't.

    Of course you do realize that common law marriages only exist as recognized by the government and not all governments recognize the practice. Hell, only something like 9 US states have provisions for common law. Further more not all common law marriages confer the same rights as full legal marriage contracts.

    As was said earlier...I can SAY whatever I want. I can SAY I am married to a banana but that doesn't mean dick in the real world.
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

  11. #1031
    Herald of the Titans Hargalaten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Um.

    In pretty much every state, any minister that performs a marriage must file the appropriate paperwork with one government agency or another. Sure, you can put a ring on your loved one and say you're married, but if something should happen to that person you would have no legal standing to do anything about it. Healthcare decisions, estates, custody, etc. I think that's a major reason why gay people are pushing so hard to have it legalized. Because they don't want to be treated like just another friend if/when something happens to their spouse.

    I have no idea where you're getting your information.
    But doesent Civil partnership have legal benefits? afaik it does, so i don't understand why it needs to be called "marriage" or am i missing something

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  12. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Um.

    In pretty much every state, any minister that performs a marriage must file the appropriate paperwork with one government agency or another. Sure, you can put a ring on your loved one and say you're married, but if something should happen to that person you would have no legal standing to do anything about it. Healthcare decisions, estates, custody, etc. I think that's a major reason why gay people are pushing so hard to have it legalized. Because they don't want to be treated like just another friend if/when something happens to their spouse.

    I have no idea where you're getting your information.
    Common law marriages can happen automatically by cohabiting with someone of the opposite sex for X number of years, depending on the state. You don't have to file papers or inform the government ahead of time, but it's meaningless unless the government recognizes the marriage.

    Personally I think common law marriages are stupid and anachronistic at this point. They may have made sense back when the standard family was the sole breadwinner man taking care of a woman back home, but that's not the standard model anymore and the law should adjust to accomodate. I have a co-worker who really got screwed by a common law marriage back in Australia, and she ended up taking him for half his assets or something like that, even though they weren't even a couple for that long.
    Last edited by Reeve; 2012-11-30 at 10:45 PM.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  13. #1033
    Two things: one is the 14th amendment addresses what states may or may not do. NOT what the federal gov't may do.
    two. if I were to get a second marriage without submitting legal paperwork I can still be prosecuted for Polygamy. (which is illegal in the united states by federal law and was long ago deemed a constitutional law).

  14. #1034
    Quote Originally Posted by woxingma View Post
    Two things: one is the 14th amendment addresses what states may or may not do. NOT what the federal gov't may do.
    two. if I were to get a second marriage without submitting legal paperwork I can still be prosecuted for Polygamy. (which is illegal in the united states by federal law and was long ago deemed a constitutional law).
    This is like the case from, oh 12 some-odd years ago where the State Supreme ct building of Alabama had a display of the Ten Commandments. When sued in federal ct to have it removed, the defense of the Chief Justice was "anyone can plainly see that the 1st/14th Amendment doesn't apply here, since I'm neither Congress nor making a law." But meh, the loons of this world define "is" as whatever they want...

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Common law marriages can happen automatically by cohabiting with someone of the opposite sex for X number of years, depending on the state. You don't have to file papers or inform the government ahead of time, but it's meaningless unless the government recognizes the marriage.
    Aren't the states that recognize common law marriage about as rare as those that offer legal benefits to a gay couple with a civil union? And do either function at the federal level?

    @Tiing: Blacks should just have contented themselves with the back of the bus, right? After-all, it's a seat in public transportation and it gets you to your destination. I hate to play the emotion card, but this whole situation does infuriate me. We went through this "separate but equal" bullshit 50 years ago, and here we are again.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    The point being, that tax doesn't exist for straight married couples, so seeking equal protection under the law is perfectly valid.
    looks like this case is exactly the kind we need before SCOTUS and fix this issue once and for all.

    I don't think the equal protection element of the 14th amendment is valid in this case. i think its more of a 1st amendment issue. We can't recognize one religions concept of marriage preferential over other religions. The government must Treat marriage as a union of two people, irregardless of gender combination:gender neutral and apply the tax code accordingly.

    This prevents defining marriage as only between two men or two women. It protects the Christan concept of marriage as one man, one women. that's the part they don't get.
    Last edited by tombstoner139; 2012-11-30 at 10:58 PM.

  17. #1037
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Aren't the states that recognize common law marriage about as rare as those that offer legal benefits to a gay couple with a civil union? And do either function at the federal level?

    @Tiing: Blacks should just have contented themselves with the back of the bus, right? After-all, it's a seat in public transportation and it gets you to your destination. I hate to play the emotion card, but this whole situation does infuriate me. We went through this "separate but equal" bullshit 50 years ago, and here we are again.
    Not sure, I do know Common Law marriage was a thing in California when I lived there, and that's a huge part of the population of the US.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Not sure, I do know Common Law marriage was a thing in California when I lived there, and that's a huge part of the population of the US.
    9 states. That's it. Though most other states will recognize a common law marriage obtained in another state.
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

  19. #1039
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Aren't the states that recognize common law marriage about as rare as those that offer legal benefits to a gay couple with a civil union? And do either function at the federal level?
    By interesting coincidence, there are 9 states (+DC) that currently allow common-law marriage, and 9 states (+DC) recognize same-sex marriages. Iowa is the only state that has both common-law marriages and same-sex marriages.

    And yes, common-law marriages are recognized for federal tax purposes.

  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by poser765 View Post
    Jesus, really? Could you be anymore condescending AND wrong?

    I will bet you everything I own vs everything you own that right now as a married straight man I have a few more additional rights/privileges than a homosexual male has because my social construct is, in fact, recognized by the state.

    FedEx or UPS...your choice.
    You also have more privileges than single men, a man that is engaged, a man in a relationship where his significant other and him decided they don't need to marry, a man in a non monogamous relationship, etc... Government should have no part in marriage and attaching privileges to it. Including same sex couples to become married is a band aid on a bigger problem. There is still a lot of people left out.

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