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  1. #1
    Field Marshal
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    The Blood Death Knight in my raid group,

    We have this Blood DK in my raid group, and I'm not very knowledgeable on Death knights. And after raid I was looking at logs and his damage seems really low, and the warrior tank in my guild says that his top abilities are all out of whack.

    So I am posting here hoping that maybe one of you experienced death knights could post some feedback on his tanking, and the abilities he is pressing.

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-17milerboer9oi1r/dashboard/?s=2574&e=2990

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Halland's Avatar
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    Not using soul reaper enough, didn't use dancing rune weapon, not death striking near enough.

    My logs for Blade Lord Ta'yak so you can compare his logs.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halland View Post
    not using soul reaper enough, didn't use dancing rune weapon, not death striking near enough.
    qft




    ////\\\\
    Death Knight -> Italiandk
    Shaman -> Cashrain
    Paladin -> Healyoutru
    Priest -> Ängel
    Monk -> Skadoosh
    Mage -> Icydeath

  4. #4
    Speaking of - I haven't seen it talked about but has anyone noticed that if you SR with DRW you get two of it? That seems nice and OP.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Insincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    Speaking of - I haven't seen it talked about but has anyone noticed that if you SR with DRW you get two of it? That seems nice and OP.
    Thats been in since mop release, it's what separates good sr use on blood dks to great sr use. As well as drw timings.

    You should get 2 sr's out per drw in execute phase. Drw will fade 1 sec before a 3rd is able.

  6. #6
    yes u get 2.. even while tanking CMs i tend to just use it+ps on bosses and save outbreak for <35% to double dip on diseases and sr using drw.

  7. #7
    I've been watching my combat text when I use DRW and SR. The target gets 2 SR debuffs but when the timer goes off, I only get credit for one of them hitting. And I know DRW is still up when it goes off so it's not because DRW fell off first.

  8. #8
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    wol looks a little messed up right now... it says my DRW's do 0 damage and my DnD's do 0 damage...

    only thing i can say about his log is that he doesn't use SR at all, DRW, DND (crimson scourge), or his ghoul, as far as DPS goes...

    also, he's on par with your warrior tank dps wise, so i'm not sure why you're expecting a significant amount more of DPS? his top abilities look fine (rune strike % seems a few percent low maybe)... so if he did all the "DPS" cd's he'll definitely beat your warrior tank...

    DRW does great when outbreak is off CD, so you can double diseases and SR 2x before it's up...

    if he hasn't already he might want to hit/exp cap too although you do lose around 3-4% avoidance and 15% or so mastery (from a 0% hit/exp baseline), but it does make a noticeable difference in dps.

  9. #9
    I am a resto shaman in this group my name is òverweight. you can look my logs up and see that my heals are not lacking and the DK tank that despicable was talking about takes SO much damage and He says im a bad healer. He takes double the warrior tanks damage tanking 1 dog on heroic stone guards then the warrior does tanking 2.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ioverweight View Post
    I am a resto shaman in this group my name is òverweight. you can look my logs up and see that my heals are not lacking and the DK tank that despicable was talking about takes SO much damage and He says im a bad healer. He takes double the warrior tanks damage tanking 1 dog on heroic stone guards then the warrior does tanking 2.
    Over the course of the above linked fight,
    he took 11m damage, and your warrior took 9m.

    With his self healing considered,
    the DK healed: ~4.2m (Considering absorbs from blood shield and overhealing, too)
    The warrior healed : ~1.8m (with significantly lower overhealing)

    The totals considering active self healing:
    DK: 6.8m
    Warrior 7.2m

    one thing i'm seeing that's very off, is his damage taken from pheromones. He didn't soak any of that damage. Didn't hit AMS at all to negate any of it (it's nature damage) On the other hand, your warrior took 17 hits from pheromone trail.


    What you're experiencing is a lack of trust. DK's take more damage up-front, and are expected to mitigate it afterwards with strategic DS use. Granted, as others have pointed out, he's not playing as well as he could be, the numbers on Garalon suggest that he's still ahead of your warrior in terms of eating healer mana.

    I didn't look at his armory, though, if you feel that he's harder to heal than other DK tanks, it's very possible he's got the wrong stat priority or something.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ioverweight View Post
    I am a resto shaman in this group my name is òverweight. you can look my logs up and see that my heals are not lacking and the DK tank that despicable was talking about takes SO much damage and He says im a bad healer. He takes double the warrior tanks damage tanking 1 dog on heroic stone guards then the warrior does tanking 2.
    Maybe the post was deleted that is blaming your heals for something, but this is an odd post to make. Like blackblade mentioned though, your not accounting for dk's self healing.

    Your raid leader can always post your raid logs into the shaman group and ask for advice there from people that know shaman healing.

    The DK's armory is here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nsent/advanced

    Personally, i've never been a fan of stacking that much mastery. Too many noobs think, oh mastery is good, must get it all and don't think about anything else. I've found some nice value in going for hit and expertise caps, but my raid group fell apart before I could do more content with hit and exp caps. Brewmaiden trinket is horrible get a darkmoon tanking trink.

    Just noticed he's using the mastery with run speed metagem. So he must be new to dk tanking, plugged his toon into askmrrobot and did whatever it told him for a mastery build. Worst ways to go i guess, but not using the austere metagem means he must be new to tanking.
    The more of my behavior you accept, the less you will have to forgive.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyperionx View Post
    Maybe the post was deleted that is blaming your heals for something, but this is an odd post to make. Like blackblade mentioned though, your not accounting for dk's self healing.

    Your raid leader can always post your raid logs into the shaman group and ask for advice there from people that know shaman healing.
    Even accounting self healing he was taking nealry the same damage as the warrior did while tanking 1 guard only (as the shaman stated), so it means dk took double damage.

    The lack of damage comes totally from your strategy (if the dk would tank 2 guards probably he would do double damage) but the lack of DS probably comes from his lack of knowledge about dk tanking.
    Death Knight -> Italiandk
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    Paladin -> Healyoutru
    Priest -> Ängel
    Monk -> Skadoosh
    Mage -> Icydeath

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Even accounting self healing he was taking nealry the same damage as the warrior did while tanking 1 guard only (as the shaman stated), so it means dk took double damage.

    The lack of damage comes totally from your strategy (if the dk would tank 2 guards probably he would do double damage) but the lack of DS probably comes from his lack of knowledge about dk tanking.
    Not entirely true. The vast majority of dmg on that fight comes from the non-stacking DoT, which means you don't get double damage from double dogs. Looking at last night's 25H stone guard kill, only 27% of the damage done to me was from melee, and I have double dog duty on that fight which means no extra DoT damage but double melee damage, so using napkin math we find that about 13.5% of each dogs dmg is from their melee, which means the double dog tank should have higher dmg taken, but only by about ~15% (this number will vary greatly depending on tank comp) as opposed to 100%.

    @OP
    Now back to the original thread. In terms of the DKs dmg output it looks like he is just not using his abilities right. His DS/min is very low, as well as his RS/min which means he probably isn't maximizing his rune return from t75 talents which means he isnt getting runes back, which means less RP, which means less runes back, which means less RP...so on so forth. On his armory it shows him using Blood Tap, though I don't see the buff from blood tap in his logs, was he using RE for that fight? Perhaps he wasn't using RS when he had fully depleted runes resulting in no procs from RE. As other have said his soul reaper usage is also a large part of it.

    In terms of his survivability (as well as DK survivability as a whole, since we somehow managed to stumble on that topic a bit too):
    It is true that a DK has to take the hit before he can recover with his death strike, which can make us inherently "spiky" compared to say a warrior or (properly played) monk. But recovering from spikes with DS is only half of the DK's "active mitigation", with CD management being the other half. Cooldowns, unlike DS, should be used preemptively (though DS should also be used preemtively as well at times, though thats a bit more advanced than the scope of this particular DK on this particular fight), and proper timing with CDs can allow a good DK to manipulate the damage he receives before he has to react with death strike. In practice, this means using CDs whenever you will potentially be without a CD for a period of time. If that is done, then the only times you will burst with be when you have a DS available, which means you can instantly recover which makes sure that your healer never has to deal with your royal spikiness sitting at <50% consistently at all since you will have been able to recover with a DS which results in a much more stable DK tank. The DK in question for this thread is not using his CD's proactively and is instead using them like DS and hitting them reactively. Add to that the fact that since he has such low DS/min which results in HUGE gaps of vulnerability and your get where his spikiness comes from, not because of his class or his healer.
    Last edited by Reniat; 2012-11-29 at 11:21 AM.

  14. #14
    In terms of your DK, i think he might not actually be using all of his globals, unfortunately, since i also messed up on this attempt, the active times are similar, but as you can see, from my log

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5694&e=6041

    To

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-17.../?s=816&e=1208

    The numbers of everything are just lower, his percentages for his diseases are higher because he's wasting globals, his maximum burst DPS is 70k, when mine is 150k.

    My fight was 40 seconds shorter, and i missed a full 10% of the fight, as i messed up whilst trying to do the braziers achievement, so was out of the fight for over a minute, yet i've done nearly double his death strikes, runes strikes, and even melee swings, he sucks at even being in melee range. I was also main tanking, rather than off tanking, and he took more damage.

    Edit, his horn of winter uptime is 12%, he should be using that pretty much every 20 seconds, for the runic power generation.
    Edit Edit, his cool down uptime is terrible, i was pretty bad this attempt, though less squishy than he by far, so have less call to use them, and still have much better uptime's than he is.
    Last edited by Akiie; 2012-11-30 at 03:11 AM.

  15. #15
    I just compared your blade lord kill to my one from last week and it's very very poor.

    6:30 fight

    - Doesn't use IBF at all
    - Doesn't use Vamp Blood at all
    - Doesn't use DRW at all
    - Doesn't use Rune Tap at all
    - Uses AMS once! -could of used it 8 times
    - Is not using globals - His efficiency is coming in around about 80% - so 20% of the time he could be pushing buttons and isn't
    - Prioritising HS over DS
    - Disease up time @ 83%
    - Only used SR once
    - Not using HoW enough

    This person is playing extremely poorly and these issues should be addressed if you want them to improve and be more successful at clearing more content.

  16. #16
    Just looked at stone guard.
    I don't get how his damage is that low though. Even with him not using all the thing mentioned in other posts.
    I'm not tanking just one dog, but i did good 90k on them tonight, and i my ilvl is 8 below his(on item being dps though). Doing 16k is really low even without any vengeance at all.

    If his spiking is too scary, let him get some stam i guess. I went a bit high on it myself, but it makes healers able to relax a bit when the spike isn't half my health but just 1/3rd.
    Overall he would probably do a fair amount more damage just binding RS/HS/DS and jamming all 3 of them all the time, to avoid not using ready runes/Runic power(not really advicing that :P )

    Noticed he's having very little overhealing. Maybe he's just idling Death strike while waiting for damage to come in, to heal more <.<

    Edit: I shouldn't be posting when tired. What i wrote is bullshit >.<
    Last edited by Terridon; 2012-11-30 at 02:00 PM.
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  17. #17
    Don't look at his stone guard damage done. He's tanking one dog which means it's taking 90% less damage.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    Don't look at his stone guard damage done. He's tanking one dog which means it's taking 90% less damage.
    Dealing ^_^
    Death Knight -> Italiandk
    Shaman -> Cashrain
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    Priest -> Ängel
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    Mage -> Icydeath

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Dealing ^_^
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=115745

    Dogs that aren't near other dogs take 90% less damage, they still deal normal damage. I'd hate to think how much my Hunter would have got smashed on meters if all our DPS-whoring multi-dotters could get maximum benefit from dotting everything on that fight.

    Although for this DK the one thing that immeadiately hits me is that someone should probably tell him to tweak his gemming as he's losing out by just gemming straight Mastery everywhere, like on his belt trading 160 Mastery for 120 Dodge and 120 Stamina is a bit of a no-brainer.
    Last edited by maelstrang; 2012-11-30 at 11:48 AM.

  20. #20

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