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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Correctsan View Post
    Whats their real proc? Thats proc duration/icd * proc value..thats how u compare trinkets , not by giving out bold numbers
    re read my OP. it wasnt a trinket comparison. it was a bold ilvl numbers comparison

    Thousand-year Pickled Egg: +904 Intel. Chance to increase your haste by 5425.
    but now that we gain 50% haste from items in 5.1, it jumps up to 8168 haste.

    for the sake of seeing how dramatic our haste buff is, Essence of Terror (509 Heroic ToES) grants 7796 haste baseline on magic dmg. we gain more haste from this 470, then we would have in 5.0 with Essence of Terror.
    Last edited by Neave; 2012-11-28 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #42
    TIL that a 50% increase means you get 50% more, and this fascinates some people.

  3. #43
    Dude still, u sure u know comparing? Nvm u obviously will try defending ur bright ideas recklessly, peace up..

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Correctsan View Post
    Dude still, u sure u know comparing? Nvm u obviously will try defending ur bright ideas recklessly, peace up..
    509 trinkets that grant secondary stats are 7796's. your'e not understanding the comparison, Correctsan. its not about the trinkets, its about item level equivalence
    Last edited by Neave; 2012-11-28 at 01:00 PM.

  5. #45
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    We were given +50% haste rating, because haste was so bad for us previously that it was worse than 2/3 the value of crit or mastery.

    Let's take your pickled egg as an example... it give 5424 haste for 10 seconds. Estimates on wowhead suggest a 17% (1/6) uptime (45 second ICD, but a low 10% proc chance). So that gives us an average of 904 additional haste, or a little over 2% haste (2.12%)--that's 2% more chi from Soothing Mist. With the new changes to haste, it bumps up to around 3% haste (3.19%)... you get about 1.07% more chi from Soothing Mist with the Pickled Egg now than you did previously.

    I'll give my own example as well... let's use 3150--the second Renewing Mist breakpoint with the patch. That's about 7.5% (7.41%) haste. With the changes, it goes up to around 11% (11.12%). You gain about 3.7% haste with the change, or 3.7% more chi from Soothing Mist over the course of the fight.

    Practically, many monks will see a significant increase in haste at the cost of mastery/crit to reach the new 3150 breakpoint. Going from 1350 haste (3.17%) to 3150 w/ the buff (11.12%), you gain 8% haste, which is fairly significant, although I still don't think it is enough to make Soothing Mist a primary chi generator (it is still less Chi than jab--you need an incredible amount of haste to surpass jab's guaranteed 1 chi/second).

    *you can go ahead and multiply all the numbers by 1.05 for the raid haste buff... too lazy to go back and fix it, but the point still stands.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Neave View Post
    do realize your own link shows more Soothing Mists than Jabs? zero SCKs
    and that our healing priority and make-up of HPS is almost exactly the same

    470 egg gives us more haste now, than the 509 trinket did patch 5.0, does it not?

    its a simple comparison.

    also, im not sure how my healing style is ridiculous
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rnmx5...rcn/details/8/
    That's because as I said Sha of Fear entails long times of just standing around literally doing nothing as it requires little to no healing outside the platforms. In any case this guy is actually using soothing mists on Sha and still it doesn't even account for 5% of his healing. Also Jab is 100% chi, while Soothing was 25% (35% now).

    Going by your log look at Garalon your own guilds other monk is outhealing you by a ton, and he isnt soothing mists at all and is using jab to generate chi. You might not use SCK in 10 mans I don't know but it's one of the most used chi generators in 25 mans especially in heavy AoE fights.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1948&e=2316

    Top parse for garalon, no soothing mists use either, see a trend here? I'm not saying you shouldn't use Soothing Mists ever, but it's one of our less used and less powerful healing spellls, good for tank healing, very light damage, or making Surging and Enveloping instant.

    That all said you are claiming pickeled egg to be awesome, and I quote here "new near.BiS", when it's a worthless trinket, 463 heroic trinkets are better.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonrisa View Post
    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lzulb9o6jy89s697/sum/healingDone/?s=6490&e=7254#Valanyr

    The top parse for the fight, Soothing mists not even 5% of his healing, yup. Also you almost don't even have to heal during Sha of Fear because raid damage is pathetic. Go find a Garalon parse with heavy soothing mist usage and compare it with one of the top parses and please tell me how strong it is. Don't get me wrong it is okish now with 5.1 for chi generation, but still not as strong as Jab or SCK for heavy AoE.
    I loled a bit when I saw my log linked here, but I wanna explain what I did so you don't get the wrong ideea. First of all I glyphed Uplift so it costs mana, unglyphed Mana Tea so I could just get back as much mana as I needed in the following phase while keeping some stacks as backup, and I used Xuen as lvl 90 talent.

    And about the number of Jabs and Soothing Mists, I never used them trying to maximize my chi generation at all. At start untill first group was ported to the platforms I just focused on outputing max Dps, reason why I chose Xuen. I keept mists up on all and its really easy cause most of the time you only have 5 players around you. I often had to position so I can reach tank and dpsers, so the logical choise would be to chanel Soothing Mists, spread Renewing Mists and keep tank alive either with Surging and Enveloping. If he would drop to low Life Cocoon + Enveloping Mists would preety much be enough. And for the raiders Uplift and Chi Wave was more than enough, and since it was unglyphed I was able to spam it.
    On the platform same deal, put down statue, keep mists up on all 5 players, and just use Uplift and Chi Wave while trying to gather as many Sha Globe's as posible. If you check buffs gained Sha Globe granted me 1.746.000 mana, thats more than double the amount players ranked under me gained. Soothing Mists on players that get really low with those instant Enveloping Mists and surges. I don't think I've seen a lot of players using this tactic but it works quite well, and its more fun that doing it classic.

    Fights like this and Garajal are not a good benchmark to go into theory crafting, since they provide an alternative way to gain mana and they also allow you to use a non conventional rotation.

    P.S - Can't use links, so hat to remove the "www"

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonrisa View Post
    Also Jab is 100% chi, while Soothing was 25% (35% now).
    That all said you are claiming pickeled egg to be awesome, and I quote here "new near.BiS", when it's a worthless trinket, 463 heroic trinkets are better.

    there is more than one playstyle of Mistweaver. using Jab or Soothing mist for chi generation are both viable, especially now.
    and a trinket granting 20% haste for 10 seconds once per miniute is not worthless. its respectable

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 01:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonrisa View Post
    Going by your log look at Garalon your own guilds other monk is outhealing you by a ton, and he isnt soothing mists at all and is using jab to generate chi. You might not use SCK in 10 mans I don't know but it's one of the most used chi generators in 25 mans especially in heavy AoE fights.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1948&e=2316

    Top parse for garalon, no soothing mists use either, see a trend here?
    i understand your examples, but its not a Garalon thread. i could go on to say look at the other fights which i am not "outhealed by a ton", but thats not the point

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Neave View Post
    *sigh*
    take your argument that Soothing Mist is used rarely, and i am a bad mistweaver, to the MMOchamp guide. which has soothing mist is every rotation except melee

    i dont like to show off my raiding progression, but being 15/15 of all raids combined; i know what i am doing. Soothing Mist is used extremely often in raids.

    i'm a bad mistweaver? comical.
    Just FYI, it's pretty easy to carry an ill-performing player through an entire tier of content. I did it all through Ulduar... so, grats on getting 15/15...? But it certainly does not automatically make you an efficient healer. That being said, if you're using SM as your primary form of healing, I feel badly for you. Jab is still more beneficial, but that's just my opinion. I'm not FIFTEEN/FIFTEEN OH JEEZ' (and inb4 you call me a bad, noob, etc. for my progression thus far; my education comes before a video game), but I can say that if I solely used SM as my chi generator, I would definitely not be healing as well as I do now.
    Last edited by Kuri-chan-senpai; 2012-11-29 at 02:29 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Celesse View Post
    it's pretty easy to carry an ill-performing player through an entire tier of content. But it certainly does not automatically make you an efficient healer. Jab is still more beneficial, but that's just my opinion. I'm not FIFTEEN/FIFTEEN OH JEEZ' (and inb4 you call me a bad, noob, etc. for my progression thus far; my education comes before a video game), but I can say that if I solely used SM as my chi generator, I would definitely not be healing as well as I do now.

    being progressed doesn't make anyone a efficient healer, their numbers do
    i wouldnt call you, or anyone a bad player for not being progressed, i dont know why youd think i would.

    there are fights where Jab could be better, equal to, or impossible to use a chi generator. its not 1 sided that "Jab is better, soothing is not good"

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 05:35 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Celesse View Post
    That being said, if you're using SM as your primary form of healing, I feel badly for you.
    you dont need to say "if". i already provided the facts on past logs.
    its my primary source of chi, not my primary heal source or "sole" chi generator

    some of these posts say im a inefficient and "bad" monk for using SM as my main heal, when its not true

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/msues...0/?s=306&e=733
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/msues...=12081&e=12434
    Last edited by Neave; 2012-11-29 at 05:55 AM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Aetain View Post
    I loled a bit when I saw my log linked here, but I wanna explain what I did so you don't get the wrong ideea. First of all I glyphed Uplift so it costs mana, unglyphed Mana Tea so I could just get back as much mana as I needed in the following phase while keeping some stacks as backup, and I used Xuen as lvl 90 talent.
    I've been using glyphed Uplift myself from like our second pull on the thing, since it's quite obviously the best way to heal the platforms, as it works the same as Gara'jal as you said yourself. You get teleported a lot less raiding 25 though And healing on the Sha platform is trivial.

    EDIT: To the OP, I think its pointless to argue with you anymore, if anything at least give jabbing a try before dismissing it, if you have any game sense at all you see pretty fast why it's a superior chi generator in almost all circunstances.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonrisa View Post
    I think its pointless to argue with you anymore, if anything at least give jabbing a try before dismissing it, if you have any game sense at all you see pretty fast why it's a superior chi generator in almost all circunstances.
    i never said Jab isnt worth trying, or dismiss it. im not considering it on this thread because I made this to talk about haste. not Jab
    its been a offtopic discussion for a while now.

    my OP included a trinket, item level comparisons, and haste stats and how it benefits me. now we're talking about rotations and how inefficient my style is, im being carried as others were for Ulduar. give me a break

    this "argument" that im dismissing on Jab doesnt belong here
    Last edited by Neave; 2012-11-29 at 10:23 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Neave View Post
    being progressed doesn't make anyone a efficient healer, their numbers do
    i wouldnt call you, or anyone a bad player for not being progressed, i dont know why youd think i would.
    You say that, and yet you said this...

    i dont like to show off my raiding progression, but being 15/15 of all raids combined; i know what i am doing
    Pick a side.

  14. #54
    This thread has quickly turned into the best method of playing a mistweaver healer so...let's clear some things up.
    There are so many variables to this argument let's start setting some parameters.
    Are we talking about 10 man or 25 man?
    Are we talking about an intense aoe environment or are we talking about tank +1-3ppl healing (10man) such as spiritbinder voodoo dolls/spirit realm?
    Are we including obscene amounts of overhealing into our almighty healing throughput?

    Personally I play a MW in 10man normal modes. Say whatever you want about normal mode not meaning a thing, but from my experience in previous heroic content, it often requires trick strats and specific class mechanics that are extremely particular to the fight and in most cases would be considered less of a "norm" than a normal mode healing strategy. That being said, I think that anyone saying "this way is a better way to heal" is extremely oversimplifying the class.

    It WAS obvious, before 5.1 that the optimal way to play your MW for throughput in nearly all situations was jab/eh/sck for chi and uplift primarily. It is also obvious, by the changes made that blizzard does not intend for us to be this bland.

    Soothing mist + statue + EM + EM buff to soothing is an extremely effective method of tank healing/small group healing. Since the buff to chi generation from a 25%-35% chance I have noticed it become much more consistent, and if it doesn't guess what, you can use ReM and expel harm at range as well as blowing a surging for the chi. With efficient tea management surging occasionally should not be an issue anyway. Statue soothing>surging>into enveloping (sometimes with enough left for an immediate followup Chi Wave)>into buffed soothing afterward is a great burst combo for tank damage.

    This class is dynamic. It has every tool to be effective from ranged to melee, from massive aoe healing to specific tank healing. Currently the highest numbers come from jab/ReM/EH + uplift rotations and so anyone else offering a different opinion is labeled a baddie. We need to broaden our perspective as a community and offer constructive opinions to move forward. Right now we sound like two bickering political parties.

    And finally, numbers and top world logs aren't everything. Overhealing can devalue a log substantially. There are plenty of cases where I would consider being #2 on the meter, while using my instant heals through soothing to keep the tank from being spiked to death of more value than the overheal-saturated throughput of the uplift norm.

    I'm writing this on my laptop while taking a crap so I aplogize in advance if I ramble or screw the pooch grammatically.
    No statistics or logs were harmed in the making of this post.

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