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  1. #101
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hif View Post
    If it doesn't matter why was Israel so adamant they don't get the seats. Here is how it works. UNGA allocates them a seat. It provides legitimacy to the idea and a concept of a Palestinian state on the pre-1967 borders. Legally defined the UN and its member states have recognized the right of a Palestinian state on its Pre-1967 borders. That in turn refutes the claim of the Israeli people and its government to what are now legally defined Palestinian lands.

    So yeah....not a big deal at all. Plus its nice to see 179 nations consider the basic right of the Palestinian people.
    General Assembly resolutions are nonbinding, so good luck with that.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  2. #102
    Yes they are when it comes to internal UN rules and regulations. More so the UNGA resolutions may non-binding on members states but they have effective shown that 179 nations consider Palestine a state on its pre-1967 borders. They have effective shown their own position as individual states.
    You can't fix stupid. But damn it you can troll it!

  3. #103
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hif View Post
    Yes they are when it comes to internal UN rules and regulations. More so the UNGA resolutions may non-binding on members states but they have effective shown that 179 nations consider Palestine a state on its pre-1967 borders. They have effective shown their own position as individual states.
    So? Their positions were already shown by their support of anti-Israel sanctions which never passed because thankfully the US has veto power in the Security Council.

    This whole thing is just a circus, really.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  4. #104
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    UNITED NATIONS — Just nine nations voted against the Palestinian Authority's upgrade to nonvoting observer state status, which passed the General Assembly 138-9, with 41 abstentions.

    Voting "no" Thursday were Israel, the United States and Canada, joined by the Czech Republic, Panama and several Pacific island nations: Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru and Palau. The Pacific nations typically support the U.S. and Israel at the U.N. on key General Assembly resolutions.


    And there we go, Palestine is now an observer state in the UN.

  5. #105
    The Lightbringer DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    The Palestinian's election of terrorists is all the reason that is needed regardless of what reason is actually cited.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    So? Their positions were already shown by their support of anti-Israel sanctions which never passed because thankfully the US has veto power in the Security Council.

    This whole thing is just a circus, really.
    It also means legally that countries can now open up embassies and consulates in Palestine
    You can't fix stupid. But damn it you can troll it!

  7. #107
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    They're non-binding, meaning they don't matter by definition.
    I don't know how you managed to change non-binding to "don't matter". If they didn't matter to anyone (including USA and Israel) then they wouldn't have voted. America just by casting their "no" voting acknowledged that these things "does in fact matter".

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 03:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    So? Their positions were already shown by their support of anti-Israel sanctions which never passed because thankfully the US has veto power in the Security Council.

    This whole thing is just a circus, really.
    This just your opinion man. This shows that the majority of the world more or less considers Israel as a bully with a big daddy issues.
    Last edited by N-7; 2012-11-30 at 03:10 PM.

  8. #108
    Pit Lord tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20552391

    Israel has just announced it is going to build 3000 homes on occupied soil. Utter scum.
    Did you like the above post? How about sending me a dollar? I'd have adverts here but apparently that'd break ToS.

  9. #109
    1) Palestine is currently governed by a US designated terrorist group
    2) Palestine continuously attacks one of our primary allies launching thousands of rockets into their country then crying when Israel retaliates
    3) The US designated terrorist group is supported by other groups that have very clearly stated it is their goal to destroy our ally.
    4) With the boarder dispute, recognizing a Palestinian state would lead to further problems over the boarde

    for these reasons and I am sure many more, the US resists. There are many ignorant posts on this forumn. I don't hold Israel blameless, but they are the US' ally and are under constant attack.

  10. #110
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricksterjim View Post
    1) Palestine is currently governed by a US designated terrorist group
    2) Palestine continuously attacks one of our primary allies launching thousands of rockets into their country then crying when Israel retaliates
    3) The US designated terrorist group is supported by other groups that have very clearly stated it is their goal to destroy our ally.
    4) With the boarder dispute, recognizing a Palestinian state would lead to further problems over the boarde

    for these reasons and I am sure many more, the US resists. There are many ignorant posts on this forumn. I don't hold Israel blameless, but they are the US' ally and are under constant attack.
    Whatever, most of the rockets had no explosives in the chamber. This is such a joke, Israel alone could annihilate Palestine, Iran, Syria, and Lebanon within a couple of weeks.

    Most countries see what this is, and they made their decision in the UN. Give Palestinians legitimacy and stop the economic sanctions and blockades of their ports and let their economy improve so the young Palestinians won't have animosity towards the US and Israel.

  11. #111
    1) its an internal affair.
    2) they have no natural resources we want or more accurately no US based corporation wants.
    3) The Palestinians had there shot as a nation and turned it down.

  12. #112
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    good luck Palestine, lets hope you keep pushing as the US/Israeli angle is clearly to just delay and prevaricate until its all too late and you have nothing left. the vast majority of the UN clearly sees Israel for what it is. your time will come.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Brachamul View Post
    Hello,

    Please understand, i'm not trying to start a heated debate, but i'm having trouble comprehending the US position on refusing recognition of the Palestinian state at the United Nations.

    To be more precise, my country of France has long-supported making the Palestinian State a member of the United Nations. Currently, this is prevented by threats from the United States to veto the proposal. Thus, Palestine can only attempt at acquiring an "Observer's Seat", for which many European countries will be voting for.

    Though i'm no specialist on the topic, and i don't see the world in a "good" and "evil" way, it feels to me that there is a clear "right" thing to do here, in the name of sheer dignity, and that the US is going against that. Perhaps I am missing something, and i would like to understand the US point of view.

    Could someone clear this up for me ?
    Because they are lead by a terrorist organisation.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 05:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Isn't the official explanation that any UN recognition of a state of palestine (of which there has never been a nation before) would become problematic to any agreements between Isreal and Palestine?

    And didn't Palestine refuse to become their own state back in '47 when the UN tried to setup Isreal and Palestine next to each other?
    Yes, they did. Palestine has refused that offer three times.
    This conflict is very very grey.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 05:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Whatever, most of the rockets had no explosives in the chamber. This is such a joke, Israel alone could annihilate Palestine, Iran, Syria, and Lebanon within a couple of weeks.

    Most countries see what this is, and they made their decision in the UN. Give Palestinians legitimacy and stop the economic sanctions and blockades of their ports and let their economy improve so the young Palestinians won't have animosity towards the US and Israel.
    If it were only that easy. Animosity and hatred would continue against Israel and the US, though not for the same reasons. Their conflict is very religiously motivated. That it's currently happening in that area is just coincidence. Ofcourse, if they did let it all happen, Israel and the US would have a clean slate and any continued aggression against them would make the aggression and fault entirely that of the palestinians and Hamas.

    But Hamas will not stop even if Palestine is recognized. I can promise you, without a shadow of a doubt, that they would continue. Their mission is not over until every jewish man, woman and child are dead or dying.

  14. #114
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    But Hamas will not stop even if Palestine is recognized. I can promise you, without a shadow of a doubt, that they would continue. Their mission is not over until every jewish man, woman and child are dead or dying.
    coming from the people that routinely kills and murders palestinians and is now building thousands of houses on land theyve stolen ill take that comment with a large pinch of salt. if israel truly wants peace(which they dont) they need to make an effort for peace rather than pushing the same tired old rhetoric while bullying and oppressing their neighbours.

    hopefully palestine as a member of the UN will give them some protection from the encroachment and oppression of Israel.

  15. #115
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Israel "throwing a tanturm" after yestarday's results.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20552391

    I wonder why people are saying that the Israeli authorities are rational when they're acting exactly like a 5 years old kid in kindergarten. That really makes you wonder about the legitimacy of thier other claims.

    EDIT: ME corrospendent discussing the matter http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20558817
    Last edited by N-7; 2012-11-30 at 04:40 PM.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Israel "throwing a tanturm" after yestarday's results.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20552391

    I wonder why people are saying that the Israeli authorities are rational when they're acting exactly like a 5 years old kid in kindergarten. That really makes you wonder about the legitimacy of thier other claims.

    EDIT: ME corrospendent discussing the matter http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20558817
    the appeal to the UN was Abbas's Tantrum aswell, he sets pre-conditions which were the issues that were supposed to be negotiated and then cries foul to the entire world that the Israelis reject unrealistic demands. and quite frankly after listening to his speech yesterday which was full of false claims, hate and venom directed towards Israel I really doubt anything can be achieved with such a vile person in lead.

  17. #117
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    The Palestinian's election of terrorists is all the reason that is needed regardless of what reason is actually cited.
    Step back and ask yourself what made it possible and you might get a revelation..

  18. #118
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mavett View Post
    the appeal to the UN was Abbas's Tantrum aswell, he sets pre-conditions which were the issues that were supposed to be negotiated and then cries foul to the entire world that the Israelis reject unrealistic demands. and quite frankly after listening to his speech yesterday which was full of false claims, hate and venom directed towards Israel I really doubt anything can be achieved with such a vile person in lead.
    Could you quote direct text of his "hate and venom directed towards Israel" ?

    This person has acknowldged Israel as a state yasterday which is more than what Israel's PM did or will ever do ""Sixty-five years ago on this day, the United Nations General Assembly adopted resolution 181, which partitioned the land of historic Palestine into two states and became the birth certificate for Israel," Mr Abbas said shortly before the vote in New York."

  19. #119
    Mechagnome
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    Didn't earlier this year the US openly told the world that we would back Israel and comdemn the Palestinians for attacking Israel? so I think we just lived up to that promise....I think!??

  20. #120
    Well from what I understand of it. After WWII the U.S. and England decided in all their postwar wisdom to do a land grab. They grabbed land from Palestinians or w/e they called themselves at that time. The U.S and U.K. Foreign policies from that point onward were to support their decision. To this day the U.S. and U.K. Refuse to see it as 60 plus years of extremely bad foreign policy. They refuse to see their land grab as a mistake.

    60+ years of war and atrocities = you probably made the wrong decision.

    What I cannot understand is that after what jewish people faced during WWII(the shear disgusting brutality, inhuman pain suffering and human losses.), that they did not miss a beat and did it to another group of people over the last 60 years.

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