Why is the US preventing Palestinian UN membership?

[whoranzone]

In this case, it really does say more than a thousand words. What's so wrong is that with so many people supporting full Palestinian membership, they are still blocked by a tiny handfull of countries. It's simply undemocratic.

Well to be fair here I don't give a flying crap either what for instance the African continent has to say on that matter. Frankly on any matter thinking a second about it.

[N-7]

I see. As far as I can tell Americans don't care either way, and only vaguely support Israel. Only Washington cares about serving all of Israel's interest, and the neoconservative minority

I know that many people in America don't necessarily share the same views as the US government (when I said the US, I only meant the government not the people) and Didactic.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 09:19 PM ----------

Well to be fair here I don't give a flying crap either what for instance the African continent has to say on that matter. Frankly on any matter thinking a second about it.

Well to be fair more "modern" countries voted yes than those who voted no or abstained. It was a total majority in every way possible (except for the US and "its minions").

[whoranzone]

Well to be fair more "modern" countries voted yes than those who voted no or abstained. It was a total majority in every way possible (except for the US and "its minions").

Well the African continent was just an example :P. I just hope my country doesn't go and takes sides on that crap it's just the last thing we need right now.

[Paraclef]

The best part is the " German vote ", AGAIN 80 years after the first one.

[Namarus]

2) The US has a long history of fighting terrorism, and when the Palestinians are governed by Hamas (A terrorist group, no matter how you look at it) in Gaza, and remnants of Fatah in the west bank, they are doubtful about once again committing the mistake of putting terrorists in a high place.

The IRA would like to have a word about that sentence. What you mean is that they have a short history of fighting terrorism.

I would also point out that state of Israel started out as a result of terrorism. King David Hotel bombing anyone?

[N-7]

The IRA would like to have a word about that sentence. What you mean is that they have a short history of fighting terrorism.

I would also point out that state of Israel started out as a result of terrorism. King David Hotel bombing anyone?

We do not talk about these things only Muslim Arabs are terrorists, others are just freedom fighters orl iberators.

[Gothicshark]

King David Hotel bombing anyone?

Do you know that history? or are you using someone else's propaganda? The difference is the "Zionist" movement was a small portion of the Jewish population in the British Colony known as Palestine. Both Muslim and Zionist extremists where attacking British troops trying to get them to leave. The King David Hotel was the final straw which caused the British to hand over the territory. However the way they did so ensured the last 64 years in the middle east would be violent. They split the land up and gave it to different groups regardless of who lived there.

[oplawlz]

Maybe because the Palestine government is unable or unwilling to keep people from lobbing rockets into Israel? Maybe if they stepped up and proved themselves to be an effective governing body we'd take them more seriously.

[Gothicshark]

I hate using Wikipedia but the easiest list of wars to use is there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...volving_Israel

Basically it goes like this, Arabs don't like the Self governing Jews, so they gather a force of as many nations as possible to invade Israel. They loose the war and Israel takes Arab controlled Lands, after a long string of terrorism, Israel agrees to UN peace terms giving the land they won back. Shortly afterwards the Arabs start another War. This means we are at the UN forcing Israel to give up land before the next major Arab invasion, which they will loose.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 02:42 PM ----------

Also I should point out the map of nations and how they voted.
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...48537339_n.jpg

It directly correlates with where a nation gets it's petroleum.

The US supplies America and Canada, the UK and Netherlands support themselves and German nations. The rest of the world is on Arab oil, with the exception of Australia which gets oil from the UK, US, Arabs, and Dutch.

[Namarus]

Do you know that history? or are you using someone else's propaganda? The difference is the "Zionist" movement was a small portion of the Jewish population in the British Colony known as Palestine. Both Muslim and Zionist extremists where attacking British troops trying to get them to leave. The King David Hotel was the final straw which caused the British to hand over the territory. However the way they did so ensured the last 64 years in the middle east would be violent. They split the land up and gave it to different groups regardless of who lived there.

Hamas is a small portion of the Palestinian population. Your point?

[Gothicshark]

Hamas is a small portion of the Palestinian population. Your point?

Actually, in Gaza they have majority rule, and Hamas controls the Majority of the Seats. So not correct, Hamas is currently the Majority of Palestinians.

The goal of Hamas, and they are very frank about it, is the removal of Jewish self rule, and the complete control of the region.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it

They do not want peace in the Middle East until Islam controls 100% of the area.

[Namarus]

Actually, in Gaza they have majority rule, and Hamas controls the Majority of the Seats. So not correct, Hamas is currently the Majority of Palestinians.

The goal of Hamas, and they are very frank about it, is the removal of Jewish self rule, and the complete control of the region.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp


They do not want peace in the Middle East until Islam controls 100% of the area.

That is a bit like saying since Barak Obama won the US Presidential elections the Majority of the US population are members of the Democratic party. No, that is not the case.

[bufferunderrun]

what i don't really get is why Usa and Nato don't have invaded palestine already, it's clear like the sun that Israel and Palestine never cut this crap so, simple solution invade, disarm Hamas and all the other terrorist organizations, kick israel back into their border and stop this stupid mess.

[Gothicshark]

That is a bit like saying since Barak Obama won the US Presidential elections the Majority of the US population are members of the Democratic party. No, that is not the case.

An estimated 311,591,917 people in the U.S. 201.5 million U.S. citizens age 18, 72 million registered Democrats, about 55 million are registered Republicans.

Using America as a occam's razor. There is 4,019,433 Palestinians The top 2 political parties are the PLO and Hamas, they are very different, ironically just like Republicans and Democrats. Right now however Hamas has 67% popular support. So if we take 2/3rds of the population and divide it by 67% we should arrive at a number indicating how many Palestinians support Hamas.

2/3's = 2,679,622
67% = 1,795,347

So technically not all Palestinians but close to 2 million of the 4 million Palestinians.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 03:40 PM ----------

what i don't really get is why Usa and Nato don't have invaded palestine already, it's clear like the sun that Israel and Palestine never cut this crap so, simple solution invade, disarm Hamas and all the other terrorist organizations, kick israel back into their border and stop this stupid mess.

America tried to get involved once It tried to force peace. 299 US and French servicemen (220 were US Marines) where killed by a suicide bomber. This lead to some really bad moves by the US Government, which caused Bin Laden to become a terrorist.

The bad move was a retaliatory carpet bombardment by the US battleship New Jersey, according to Arab sources thousands died from that.

Trust me in this war between Islam extremist and Israel there can only be looser. Because each side has the basic notion that if you hurt me I hurt you back seven times. At this point each side claims a vendetta in the millions.

[Namarus]

An estimated 311,591,917 people in the U.S. 201.5 million U.S. citizens age 18, 72 million registered Democrats, about 55 million are registered Republicans.

Using America as a occam's razor. There is 4,019,433 Palestinians The top 2 political parties are the PLO and Hamas, they are very different, ironically just like Republicans and Democrats. Right now however Hamas has 67% popular support. So if we take 2/3rds of the population and divide it by 67% we should arrive at a number indicating how many Palestinians support Hamas.

2/3's = 2,679,622
67% = 1,795,347

So technically not all Palestinians but close to 2 million of the 4 million Palestinians.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 03:40 PM ----------



America tried to get involved once It tried to force peace. 299 US and French servicemen (220 were US Marines) where killed by a suicide bomber. This lead to some really bad moves by the US Government, which caused Bin Laden to become a terrorist.

The bad move was a retaliatory carpet bombardment by the US battleship New Jersey, according to Arab sources thousands died from that.

Trust me in this war between Islam extremist and Israel there can only be looser. Because each side has the basic notion that if you hurt me I hurt you back seven times. At this point each side claims a vendetta in the millions.

Except that Hamas only control Gaza which has a population of only 1,657,155 (2011). That reduces your numbers even more.

[Yirrah]

Well to be fair here I don't give a flying crap either what for instance the African continent has to say on that matter. Frankly on any matter thinking a second about it.

How very fortunate that you are not in charge of international politics then.

[Gothicshark]

Except that Hamas only control Gaza which has a population of only 1,657,155 (2011). That reduces your numbers even more.

You would think, when looking at the raw data Hamas had 67% of the vote. So just because they are strongest in Gaza doesn't mean they don't exist in the West bank. Just like America Democrats are on the coasts and Republicans are in the center, until you look at the voting by county and see that in the denser populated regions people almost uniformly vote Democrat and in the sparsely populated regions they vote Republican. Hamas has 67% of the popular support and controls Gaza. That means that half of the West Bank supports Hamas and the other half support the other parties. Sadly this might be a problem of first past the post which leads to minority rule. After all there are 7-8 political parties in Palestine, some are secular and willing to make peace, where as Hamas will not rest until Israel is gone. At this point I think the voice of reason is gone from that region for a long time to come.

[Anjerith]

There are two sides to every coin, sadly for these two group of peoples, that coin is too valuable to let fall into enemy hands.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 11:56 PM ----------

what i don't really get is why Usa and Nato don't have invaded palestine already, it's clear like the sun that Israel and Palestine never cut this crap so, simple solution invade, disarm Hamas and all the other terrorist organizations, kick israel back into their border and stop this stupid mess.

You can't just do that. If the US or NATO (lol) did that then it would set a president whereupon they could theoretically pop up anywhere in the world to smash governments that didn't get along.

[whoranzone]

How very fortunate that you are not in charge of international politics then.

Well it isn't like anyone cares unless there is some sort of gain involved there. I mean even you can't really be naive enough to believe that Russia or China actually cares for the Palestinians.

[Gothicshark]

Well it isn't like anyone cares unless there is some sort of gain involved there. I mean even you can't really be naive enough to believe that Russia or China actually cares for the Palestinians.

They don't, they buy oil from the Islamic controlled regions. Look at the list of nations that voted No, they are able to survive with out Arab oil, the nations which didn't vote can produce 50% of what they need. So is it that the world likes Palestine or is it the World needs Arab oil.