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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Maybe in 1976. I'm a builder and I can assure you every single window and door in the market now AS STANDARD needs hours of work by an expert, to break it.
    And if you want to spend a bit more triple glasses with a thin layer of plastic as I fitted myself personally once.
    Worth 3 guns.
    Really? Because Im pretty sure the NEWLY built house next door, had a window broken with a brick, that some jackass threw because his ex cheated on him.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    Most people don't choose to let burglars into their home.

    My front and back doors are both locked with deadbolts, but I'm not going to put bars over my windows. If someone wants to break into my house, they will be able to. I'm not going to go to the great lengths I would have to go to in order to make entry near-impossible.

    I avoid dodgy places as much as I can, which is 99.9% of the time. The other 0.1% of the time I'm glad I have the equipment and knowledge to defend myself should the need arise.



    The "gentleman" in the news story is pretty clearly a psycho, and from what I've read a murderer. No-one is defending him (except that annoying troll who I'm really not sure if he's even serious).
    As I said to pizzashark. What's standard on the market now is close to unbreakable.
    If you want to invest in security, make your home a fortress. There is lights, wireless alarms, triple glazed windows, and all Of this has The minimal visual effect.
    No burglar can find his way in under a flashlight, alarm playing, unbreakable windows, and inaccessible door.

    I understand what you're saying about feeling protected when you're around.
    But you do consider the consequences of carrying a gun if something goes wrong. They outweight MASSIVELY the minimal chance you get robbed in your local city centre or whatnot.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Maybe in 1976. I'm a builder and I can assure you every single window and door in the market now AS STANDARD needs hours of work by an expert, to break it.
    And if you want to spend a bit more triple glasses with a thin layer of plastic as I fitted myself personally once.
    Worth 3 guns.
    Indeed. Too many people worry about what to do if they get in instead of thinking about what they can do to keep them out. An alarm for less than 500 dollars would solve a lot of it, but yeah, some people just don't like that option.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by babalou1 View Post
    Really? Because Im pretty sure the NEWLY built house next door, had a window broken with a brick, that some jackass threw because his ex cheated on him.
    Pay peanuts you get monkey.
    It's YOUR own job to invest in your own security.
    I can assure you you can throw brick to a triple glazed window as long as you want.
    I just had them fitted in my own place. AND they're great for insulation call today 10% off
    Seriously though.
    I'd invest in real security more then gun. A gun won't stop them to come in and who knows what happens then aye?

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    As I said to pizzashark. What's standard on the market now is close to unbreakable.
    If you want to invest in security, make your home a fortress. There is lights, wireless alarms, triple glazed windows, and all Of this has The minimal visual effect.
    No burglar can find his way in under a flashlight, alarm playing, unbreakable windows, and inaccessible door.

    I understand what you're saying about feeling protected when you're around.
    But you do consider the consequences of carrying a gun if something goes wrong. They outweight MASSIVELY the minimal chance you get robbed in your local city centre or whatnot.
    You are mistaken. There are extremely durable windows available but they are not cheap and they are certainly not standard. I don't live in a bad neighborhood so I don't think spending thousands of dollars turning my house into a fortress would be a good investment, given the fact that none of those security systems are ever likely to be used. I'd rather spend a couple hundred on a decent pistol and shotgun that I can also use to hunt and have fun with at the range.

    If I lived in a bad part of town I would be far more inclined to make those sort of security investments when I could afford them.

    Please explain what you mean by "the consequences of carrying a gun if something goes wrong".

  6. #506
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    Indeed. Too many people worry about what to do if they get in instead of thinking about what they can do to keep them out. An alarm for less than 500 dollars would solve a lot of it, but yeah, some people just don't like that option.
    Alarm systems give you the illusion of safety. If some dude decides he wants to break in and murder you or rape you or whatever, the alarm system and deadbolts on your door ain't gonna stop them, and the police will arrive in minutes, not seconds.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    MMOC IRC!

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Alarm systems give you the illusion of safety. If some dude decides he wants to break in and murder you or rape you or whatever, the alarm system and deadbolts on your door ain't gonna stop them, and the police will arrive in minutes, not seconds.
    I'm not saying alarms are the solution. I'm saying a relatively cheap alarm system would dissuade most criminals and drastically reduce the need for a firearm for self-defence in your own home.

    The chance of actually getting murdered or raped in your home by someone who enters your home with that sole purpose is ridiculously low.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Alarm systems give you the illusion of safety. If some dude decides he wants to break in and murder you or rape you or whatever, the alarm system and deadbolts on your door ain't gonna stop them, and the police will arrive in minutes, not seconds.
    If you can afford the sort of doors and windows Djalil is talking about, they will keep out all but the most determined thug--to the point that anyone who isn't gunning for YOU specifically would just try a different house instead. The alarm system is mostly a deterrent, but if you're in a bad part of town a criminal won't be bothered by an alarm going off.

    These sort of things cost a lot of money, though. And if you live in the part of town where they are likely to be needed, you are unlikely to be able to afford them.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Alarm systems give you the illusion of safety. If some dude decides he wants to break in and murder you or rape you or whatever, the alarm system and deadbolts on your door ain't gonna stop them, and the police will arrive in minutes, not seconds.
    Well in that case there is not point in owning a gun neither because if someone wants to kill you, they will kill you.

  10. #510
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    I'm not saying alarms are the solution. I'm saying a relatively cheap alarm system would dissuade most criminals and drastically reduce the need for a firearm for self-defence in your own home.

    The chance of actually getting murdered or raped in your home by someone who enters your home with that sole purpose is ridiculously low.
    Of course it is, but it isn't zero.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    MMOC IRC!

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    You are mistaken. There are extremely durable windows available but they are not cheap and they are certainly not standard. I don't live in a bad neighborhood so I don't think spending thousands of dollars turning my house into a fortress would be a good investment, given the fact that none of those security systems are ever likely to be used. I'd rather spend a couple hundred on a decent pistol and shotgun that I can also use to hunt and have fun with at the range.

    If I lived in a bad part of town I would be far more inclined to make those sort of security investments when I could afford them.

    Please explain what you mean by "the consequences of carrying a gun if something goes wrong".
    Consequences, for example, if you do get hassled, dragged into a gunfight, having the worst of it and someone of yours killed when the robber would have been gone with a wallet. Or being neutralised, having the gun stolen and releasing yet another fully functional gun in the wrong hands. Getting hassled after having a bad day feel threatened when there isn't any threat shoot and kill unjustifiably and go to jail leaving your family alone. Or defending yourself rightfully shooting missing him and hitting someone else.

    All real possibilities that seriously outweight that 1% of having your wallet stolen that, as you put it yourself regarding home security, might as well never happen.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 10:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Alarm systems give you the illusion of safety. If some dude decides he wants to break in and murder you or rape you or whatever, the alarm system and deadbolts on your door ain't gonna stop them, and the police will arrive in minutes, not seconds.
    With an alarm playing, the police, as you said will take max 10 minutes to get there MAX.
    I guarantee you in 10 minutes there is NO WAY anyone would even get close in breaking in a proper defended house.
    And why would the robber even risk getting caught to steal anything, unless he REALLY wants to kill YOU and YOU in particular but I just don't see that option.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 10:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    If you can afford the sort of doors and windows Djalil is talking about, they will keep out all but the most determined thug--to the point that anyone who isn't gunning for YOU specifically would just try a different house instead. The alarm system is mostly a deterrent, but if you're in a bad part of town a criminal won't be bothered by an alarm going off.

    These sort of things cost a lot of money, though. And if you live in the part of town where they are likely to be needed, you are unlikely to be able to afford them.
    They are not as expensive as they used to be. Especially alarms. You can get a wireless alarm that needs ZERO work to fit it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 10:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Of course it is, but it isn't zero.
    There is a point in the percentage scale in which you have to stop caring for it. Or you will live in fear. There is a 1% chance that I get run over by a truck by that wont stop me from going to work. I look when I cross the street (defend myself passively) but I don't go around destroying every truck that looks at me suspiciously.

  12. #512
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    Stand your ground is by far the most retarded law in any civilized country, completely fucking retarded. Just like the weapons legislation.

    OT - That guy just seems like a psycho, but making it easy for psychos to get guns might also have a little something to do with it.
    8 year olds Dude.

  13. #513
    Titan PizzaSHARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    There is a point in the percentage scale in which you have to stop caring for it. Or you will live in fear. There is a 1% chance that I get run over by a truck by that wont stop me from going to work. I look when I cross the street (defend myself passively) but I don't go around destroying every truck that looks at me suspiciously.
    Exactly. So why are you assuming US gun owners run around waving their guns at anything they see?
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    MMOC IRC!

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Let me know when you move out of your mom's house and have to deal with gang violence.
    So you moved out of your mom's house, good for you! Maybe it would have been a better idea to move to a gang-free zone while you were at it.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    Lol, this actually made the news.

    "For the first time in living memory, New York has spent a day entirely without violent crime."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20536201
    lol
    ....I'm starting to think that maybe I'm spoiled. Violent crimes here are much rarer.

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Alarm systems give you the illusion of safety. If some dude decides he wants to break in and murder you or rape you or whatever, the alarm system and deadbolts on your door ain't gonna stop them, and the police will arrive in minutes, not seconds.
    I live with the idea that it isn't going to happen. You seem to be incapable of that.
    Truth is that, unless you are dealing with a madman, he is there to steal your money and doesn't want to get caught. In this case an alarm is more than enough.
    But then again US seems to have a good number of madmen...

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 11:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Exactly. So why are you assuming US gun owners run around waving their guns at anything they see?
    Yeah pretty much




    EDIT: In the end I'm wondering why am I still checking this thread, it was not the first one and it won't be the last of us non-americans being horrified ad US gun policy and declaring them paranoid.
    Considering I have no intention to move in the US (and it isn't even in my top list for tourism) you can shoot each other as much as you please for all I care. I will keep reading the news and think "lol 'mmerica".
    Last edited by capitano666; 2012-11-29 at 10:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kavoo View Post
    Well I do have a penis attached to me as well but I dont know 'a lot' about it, I dont even know how it tastes. Maybe you do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycoris View Post
    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Exactly. So why are you assuming US gun owners run around waving their guns at anything they see?
    I'm not assuming anything.
    All I'm saying is if you feel the need to own a gun for something it might never happen just keep in mind so do many more and there you have widespread gun possession which INEVITABLY leads to more guns in the black market.
    You're not going to argue that are you?

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Consequences, for example, if you do get hassled, dragged into a gunfight, having the worst of it and someone of yours killed when the robber would have been gone with a wallet. Or being neutralised, having the gun stolen and releasing yet another fully functional gun in the wrong hands. Getting hassled after having a bad day feel threatened when there isn't any threat shoot and kill unjustifiably and go to jail leaving your family alone. Or defending yourself rightfully shooting missing him and hitting someone else.

    All real possibilities that seriously outweight that 1% of having your wallet stolen that, as you put it yourself regarding home security, might as well never happen.
    I'm not going to be treated any differently if no-one knows that I am carrying.

    If I am confronted with an armed assailant I would rather have my gun than not. Whether using it or not is the most prudent choice depends on the situation, but there is no reason for me to be at my attacker's mercy.

    If I decided to kill someone for no reason, I'd be perfectly capable of doing it with my bare hands. But that's not something I would ever do. Nor am I prone to panic or to bouts of wild rage.

    The concern of my gun being stolen won't prevent me from carrying it any more than the concern of my car being stolen would prevent me from parking it anywhere but a garage. Also, my gun can't be a specific theft target if no-one knows that I am carrying it.

    I'm not a terrible shot, and even a terrible shot can hit someone in the chest at short range. You aim for the center of mass specifically so that you are less likely to miss and your bullets are less likely to penetrate fully and hit something behind your target--and the first thing every gun owner learns is that anything in the background of your target could potentially be hit, so you have to act accordingly.

    I don't see any evidence supporting your assertion that the bad things that could happen as a result of you being armed "seriously outweigh" the good.

    They are not as expensive as they used to be. Especially alarms. You can get a wireless alarm that needs ZERO work to fit it.
    They're still too expensive for me. Again, if I lived in a bad part of town, that would be another story.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 10:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I'm not assuming anything.
    All I'm saying is if you feel the need to own a gun for something it might never happen just keep in mind so do many more and there you have widespread gun possession which INEVITABLY leads to more guns in the black market.
    You're not going to argue that are you?
    I won't argue that more legal guns allows the possibility of more illegal guns, but outlawing guns would accomplish exactly 2 things; turning the black market into a FUCKING GOLDMINE and--as has probably been said in this thread already--causing only the criminals to have guns.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    I'm not going to be treated any differently if no-one knows that I am carrying.

    If I am confronted with an armed assailant I would rather have my gun than not. Whether using it or not is the most prudent choice depends on the situation, but there is no reason for me to be at my attacker's mercy.

    If I decided to kill someone for no reason, I'd be perfectly capable of doing it with my bare hands. But that's not something I would ever do. Nor am I prone to panic or to bouts of wild rage.

    The concern of my gun being stolen won't prevent me from carrying it any more than the concern of my car being stolen would prevent me from parking it anywhere but a garage. Also, my gun can't be a specific theft target if no-one knows that I am carrying it.

    I'm not a terrible shot, and even a terrible shot can hit someone in the chest at short range. You aim for the center of mass specifically so that you are less likely to miss and your bullets are less likely to penetrate fully and hit something behind your target--and the first thing every gun owner learns is that anything in the background of your target could potentially be hit, so you have to act accordingly.

    I don't see any evidence supporting your assertion that the bad things that could happen as a result of you being armed "seriously outweigh" the good.



    They're still too expensive for me. Again, if I lived in a bad part of town, that would be another story.
    You obviously are a sane person with solid nerves and I congratulate you on that.
    But you have to understand that MANY of us aren't.
    My list of possibilities still stand, as you provided your judgement based mainly on your OWN persona.

    It would be safe to assume you are also a gun owner. May I ask you how much you paid for it?

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Maybe in 1976. I'm a builder and I can assure you every single window and door in the market now AS STANDARD needs hours of work by an expert, to break it.
    And if you want to spend a bit more triple glasses with a thin layer of plastic as I fitted myself personally once.
    Worth 3 guns.
    You can pop almost all modern windows out of their frames in a relatively short amount of time. In most countries it is a legal requirement to allow emergency personnel access, as is ensuring you have a window that a fully equipped fire-fighter can enter without issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    I won't argue that more legal guns allows the possibility of more illegal guns, but outlawing guns would accomplish exactly 2 things; turning the black market into a FUCKING GOLDMINE and--as has probably been said in this thread already--causing only the criminals to have guns.
    Other countries have been there and done that, its not a big deal and didn't have the consequences you outlined.
    Last edited by runawaybishop; 2012-11-29 at 10:43 AM.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    You obviously are a sane person with solid nerves and I congratulate you on that.
    But you have to understand that MANY of us aren't.
    My list of possibilities still stand, as you provided your judgement based mainly on your OWN persona.

    It would be safe to assume you are also a gun owner. May I ask you how much you paid for it?
    Thanks. You seem quite reasonable and lucid yourself.

    Yeah, I know that a lot of people aren't like you and me. And if a person doesn't think they are capable of safely using a gun for self-defense, I believe they should choose to not use one. To broadly generalize, I believe that a gun is the best weapon for self-defense. But I don't think it's the best self-defense weapon for every person. I just think that people should have the right to make that choice themselves.

    I currently live with my dad, and his pistol/shotgun are our home defense weapons. I don't remember what he paid for them, but he's had them a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by runawaybishop View Post
    Other countries have been there and done that, its not a big deal and didn't have the consequences you outlined.
    Other countries are exactly that--other countries. Different people, different demographics, different population, different criminals, different guns.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    Other countries are exactly that--other countries. Different people, different demographics, different population, different criminals, different guns.
    Obviously they are different, it doesn't stand that America is special though and so cannot restrict gun ownership.

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