1. #1

    Question Having trouble with TotH as Surv/Marks in PvE.

    TotH is causing me some issues when i am playing Surv or Marks in PvE, but it also helps me quite a bit so i am reluctant to give it up.
    I also dislike both Dire Beast and that other talent, so i would like to keep TotH if i can find some solutions to the issues noted below.
    I will just list the pros and cons of TotH for me for both of the specs:

    As PvE Marks:
    + Makes Multishot much cheaper, with the Barrage proc (Marks passive) it makes Multishot completely free of cost.
    + Allows me to spam Arcane Shot much more often on single target, which does more damage than spamming Steady Shot.
    - Because TotH procs so much (and i use it every time) i sometimes forget to keep the Steady Focus buff up (20 sec now so it is easier).
    - Again, due to TotH procs, i am using much less Steady Shots (spamming Arcane Shots) so i am not building the "Aimed Shot stacks" (major problem imo).
    - Sometimes, i get so many TotH procs in a row that my Focus is just sitting at 100% with me having nothing else to do but spam TotH Arcane Shot, tho this is mostly just a bad feel cause i am wasting focus regen.

    As PvE Survival:
    + Same advantages as with Marks, very cheap AoE and a ton of free Arcane Shots.
    - Due to the number of TotH procs i am using less Cobra Shot, so my Serpent sting sometimes falls off.
    - Same "100% focus and nothing to spend it on" kinda bad feeling, due to mass TotH procs.

    Does anyone here have any suggestions or tips how to fit TotH properly into these 2 PvE specs, especially the "aim shot stacks" building issue?
    Thank you for reading and helping out

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    TotH is causing me some issues when i am playing Surv or Marks in PvE, but it also helps me quite a bit so i am reluctant to give it up.
    I also dislike both Dire Beast and that other talent, so i would like to keep TotH if i can find some solutions to the issues noted below.
    I will just list the pros and cons of TotH for me for both of the specs:

    As PvE Marks:
    + Makes Multishot much cheaper, with the Barrage proc (Marks passive) it makes Multishot completely free of cost.
    + Allows me to spam Arcane Shot much more often on single target, which does more damage than spamming Steady Shot.
    - Because TotH procs so much (and i use it every time) i sometimes forget to keep the Steady Focus buff up (20 sec now so it is easier).
    - Again, due to TotH procs, i am using much less Steady Shots (spamming Arcane Shots) so i am not building the "Aimed Shot stacks" (major problem imo).
    - Sometimes, i get so many TotH procs in a row that my Focus is just sitting at 100% with me having nothing else to do but spam TotH Arcane Shot, tho this is mostly just a bad feel cause i am wasting focus regen.

    As PvE Survival:
    + Same advantages as with Marks, very cheap AoE and a ton of free Arcane Shots.
    - Due to the number of TotH procs i am using less Cobra Shot, so my Serpent sting sometimes falls off.
    - Same "100% focus and nothing to spend it on" kinda bad feeling, due to mass TotH procs.

    Does anyone here have any suggestions or tips how to fit TotH properly into these 2 PvE specs, especially the "aim shot stacks" building issue?
    Thank you for reading and helping out
    I run Surv with TotH and use multi shot to refresh SS when focus is too high. Since my CS cast times use almost 2 globals, I find a multi + arcane with an extension of SS from serpent spread + some focus bleed > 1 cobra

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoangel View Post
    I run Surv with TotH and use multi shot to refresh SS when focus is too high. Since my CS cast times use almost 2 globals, I find a multi + arcane with an extension of SS from serpent spread + some focus bleed > 1 cobra
    I am using something similar for my Surv spec as well, but thanks for posting

    Does anyone have any suggestions or tips about Marks and TotH in PvE, mainly the lack of Steady Shot/Aimed Shot stacks?

  4. #4
    The best tip I can give you about MM right now is...Don't play it.

    Out of the 3, it is the weakest at the moment. Obviously I have not been able to see if this has changed since 5.1 due to the Steady Focus change but it does not seem like it will be enough.

    If you want to progress and do well with your guild, switch between SV and BM depending on the raid fight.

  5. #5
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    I think prioritizing free AS is a mistake. You have to make an assessment of not only the damage of the ability, and the cost for that damage. The cost is assessed not only in terms of focus cost, but time cost. Spending 3 GCDs every time TotH is up is going to be a mistake. In a theoretical world where you can spend all your ToTH charges without losing SrS or Aimed Shots or what have you, ToTH would be a great DPS option. In reality it falls behind DB in particular (both in single target SV/BM and probably MM, and is only favorable in AoE situations) because spending those GCDs at the expense of a higher DPET ability is bad.

    Sometimes you munch a charge. In the standard 8s cycle of a Chimera shot, you should be, worst case scenario, under haste where you'd want to be AiS dumping:

    SSx2, full duration buff assumed
    0s: CS (45 focus, ToTH procs)
    1s: AiS (50 focus)
    ~2.7s: AS (free)
    3.7s: AS (free)
    4.7s: AS (free, you've gained about enough focus for another AiS but casting another will leave you focus starved and thus too late to SSx2 if you want CS at 9s)

    At this point you can go a few ways. One is to cast the AiS anyways (this is wrong):
    5.7s: AiS (50)
    7.4s: SS
    8.8s: SS
    10.2s: CS, a delay of 1.2s on the CS cast and a big DPS loss. Probably not going to be able manage the CS with a single SS so...

    5.7s: AS (20)
    6.7: SSx2 (2.8s)
    9.5s: CS, which is close enough for gov't work.

    This is the problem with the 9s CS (and why I don't understand why they rolled it in to begin with). The CS cycle naturally requires at least SSx2 with a ToTH proc/fervor/DB up, or SSx4 without a proc. Extending the buff is just leeway and was achieved when they made it 10s from 8s - you still need the SS to keep the cycle up.

    TBH, I haven't played MM since FL, but I believe Fervor is off the GCD, and that's what I'd want to be using in MM, I'd think.

  6. #6
    Thanks for posting

    I welcome any more tips or advice.

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