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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I think you could agree, however, that if you don't have to sacrifice crit to obtain the haste then it would be a gain, or if you only had to sacrifice X crit, whatever than X number may be. So if you end up with several pieces with the itemization crit/haste, or mastery(or spirit)/haste and reforge the former into crit, then it would be a beneficial gain all around.
    I value spirit over haste whenever haste gives no extra throughput until you gain 3000~ of it. With reforging, I can sit at the 3150~ breakpoint, and have the rest in crit/spirit. Even as someone who doesn't like spirit, and stacks as much int/crit as I can, I'd take more spirit well before I'd take more haste. Nothing comes free in a world with reforges. While it may be a throughput (in raw HPS) gain to get more haste, I feel that the longevity or extra SCK's that more spirit adds is worth more than the haste. At some point, if you can stack throughput and still spam SCK to generate chi, then you're in a, well, a wonderful and likely OP world.

  2. #62
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    I value spirit over haste whenever haste gives no extra throughput until you gain 3000~ of it. With reforging, I can sit at the 3150~ breakpoint, and have the rest in crit/spirit. Even as someone who doesn't like spirit, and stacks as much int/crit as I can, I'd take more spirit well before I'd take more haste. Nothing comes free in a world with reforges. While it may be a throughput (in raw HPS) gain to get more haste, I feel that the longevity or extra SCK's that more spirit adds is worth more than the haste. At some point, if you can stack throughput and still spam SCK to generate chi, then you're in a, well, a wonderful and likely OP world.
    I think you're being a bit disingenuous. You do have some gains with that 3k haste other than the breakpoint from eminence healing. The arguement I'm trying to put forth is that 3k haste could be more useful than 3k mastery/spirit.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I think you're being a bit disingenuous. You do have some gains with that 3k haste other than the breakpoint from eminence healing. The arguement I'm trying to put forth is that 3k haste could be more useful than 3k mastery/spirit.
    I'm pretty sure the only healer in their right mind that would trade Spirit for Haste would only do so if they end fights with far more mana than they could ever use. Mastery is becoming a dead stat every day that we trust its reliability less and less, but with Crit being the best stat then you're only really trading Spirit for Haste. The question is: how little Spirit can you deal with for whatever content you're doing? The difference between doing normal MSV and HoF/TOES heroic bosses can be as much as 5 or 6k Spirit required, so it all really depends on your gear vs your current content.

  4. #64
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    K so logs got messed up b/c the guy who usually does them was on some painkillers and forgot >.< but just from my glances at recount ReM was up over 70% overheals on some fights. I don't think the 12 tick breakpoint necessary at my level of progression. There is just not enough damage going out to warrant it. Your mileage may vary.

  5. #65
    Like it or not, this has been the most interesting theorycrafting thread on mistweavers i've seen in a while.

    Quite curious to see the result of the experiment with the 3rd haste cap.. I could probably reach it, but I'm doing 10s and it's not like I'm like it's going to heal more under spirit shell ;-)
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    Like it or not, this has been the most interesting theorycrafting thread on mistweavers i've seen in a while.

    Quite curious to see the result of the experiment with the 3rd haste cap.. I could probably reach it, but I'm doing 10s and it's not like I'm like it's going to heal more under spirit shell ;-)
    I don't see whats interesting about it at all. I already told you that it was worse to stack haste in every way shape and form because of how we heal and when it's important to burst heal which stats are effective. (Hint: its not haste)

    I even mathed out possible gain on ReM/uplift from haste vs. crit and crit blew it away, let alone every other spell we have which DOESNT scale with haste.

    How a thread which was pointless and proven such from the very beginning is "the most interesting theorycrafting thread on MW in awhile" blows my mind.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    I don't see whats interesting about it at all. I already told you that it was worse to stack haste in every way shape and form because of how we heal and when it's important to burst heal which stats are effective. (Hint: its not haste)

    I even mathed out possible gain on ReM/uplift from haste vs. crit and crit blew it away, let alone every other spell we have which DOESNT scale with haste.

    How a thread which was pointless and proven such from the very beginning is "the most interesting theorycrafting thread on MW in awhile" blows my mind.
    I think you're overlooking this forum's almost toxic aversion to math.

  8. #68
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    I don't see whats interesting about it at all. I already told you that it was worse to stack haste in every way shape and form because of how we heal and when it's important to burst heal which stats are effective. (Hint: its not haste)

    I even mathed out possible gain on ReM/uplift from haste vs. crit and crit blew it away, let alone every other spell we have which DOESNT scale with haste.

    How a thread which was pointless and proven such from the very beginning is "the most interesting theorycrafting thread on MW in awhile" blows my mind.
    I don't think anyone was ever saying haste would be better than crit point for point. I was trying to see if losing a tiny amount of crit, then filling in with mastery/spirit would be worth it for the breakpoint. At such point where we could not lose any crit and still reach that 12th tick it will be an increase, there is no doubt about that.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I think you could agree, however, that if you don't have to sacrifice crit to obtain the haste then it would be a gain, or if you only had to sacrifice X crit, whatever than X number may be. So if you end up with several pieces with the itemization crit/haste, or mastery(or spirit)/haste and reforge the former into crit, then it would be a beneficial gain all around.
    but
    I dont see much situations where this will happen in the current tier. Yes if you have all the haste pieces im sure you will get 6k haste but you could just as easily have gotten the crit items instead and kept your haste to 3148

  10. #70
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    but
    I dont see much situations where this will happen in the current tier. Yes if you have all the haste pieces im sure you will get 6k haste but you could just as easily have gotten the crit items instead and kept your haste to 3148
    As I have said several times before, the assumption is that you will already have crit on every piece and will not be giving up any crit. Items with native haste on them and a few reforges from mastery/spirit -> haste could be beneficial once that level of gear is obtained, which wyse may have already gotten to once she shares some of her experiences with us.

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