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  1. #61
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    THIS.

    The forsaken weren't just the exact same people but happening to be dead, a lot of who they were was lost with just a fraction of the memories.

    IF they get their old "soul" and memories back, and became full living humans again... they would probably go mad at having been a corspe for 5 years, teamed up with their enemies, murdered their own friends and family that are in the Alliance, and not to mention having eaten their bodies after they kill them, there's no coming back from that.
    There are several canon sources, that prove the forsaken remember their former lives. They still have the very same soul, though it is twisted. Most of them just don't care about their former live anymore. As to why the recent raised forsaken on the battlefield choose to attack their former comrades in arms.

    Q: Why do some Alliance soldiers raised by the Forsaken immediately become loyal to the Forsaken while others do not? Are they being mind controlled? If so, by whom: Sylvanas or the Val’kyr? How does this relate to the fact that the Forsaken cultural identity is based on their free will and rebellion against the Lich King?
    A: Free will is one of the cornerstones of Forsaken culture, with the great capacity for both good and evil that it entails. However, some undead, especially those who die in combat or under extreme stress and are raised soon after, enter into a violent, frenzied state. Undead in this state are easily manipulated and their rage is often directed at the foes of those who raised them. After the effects wear off, if the risen corpse has not been destroyed, they are given the same ultimatum that other Forsaken are offered: join the Dark Lady or return to the grave.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  2. #62
    still be shunned, probably. I mean have you seen what they've been doing? Just because they're human again doesn't mean they're nice again. Most have become embittered and vengeful, monsters on the inside as much as out.

    It's part of their appeal.

  3. #63
    If, as OP meant to say, they were cured of undeath and resurrected back to life, they wouldn't want to rejoin the Alliance. After all the terrible things the Alliance has done to them, there is literally no way. And if the Alliance offered to welcome them back into the fold, that would probably just piss them off even more, and for good reason! If someone told me they didn't want to be friends with me because I'm an atheist, and then I converted to Christianity and they got all chummy I'd tell them to fuck right off with their bigotry.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by MargrimEU View Post
    We can even throw a bit more of a hypothesis out there: Are we sure that the Zombie-Outbreak was caused by Arthas; What if Putress and Varimathras organized the Zombie-Outbreak? As both a field-test and a way for Putress to be appointed as the Grand Apothecary, cementing his influence over the Royal Apothecary Society?
    Unless Putress and Varimathras had access to frost wyrms, nerubians and their architecture, I doubt it.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    It's part of their appeal.
    Very true

    People always love bashing the Forsaken for being "evil", but honestly, they are a race of rotting undead, do people really see them acting like goody 2 shoes?
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2012-11-29 at 04:09 PM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Unless Putress and Varimathras had access to frost wyrms, nerubians and their architecture, I doubt it.
    Oh right, your probably correct there, I myself seem to remember the ZO and the attacks by the Necropoly as 2 different events, but I'm probably wrong there

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 08:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    I know all of that and it's still besides the point, it was not the forsaken that USED it and caused the Wrathgate incident.
    The Forsaken were instumental to the Wrathgate-incident, no Forsaken equals no New Plague

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by MargrimEU View Post
    Oh right, your probably correct there, I myself seem to remember the ZO and the attacks by the Necropoly as 2 different events, but I'm probably wrong there
    They appeared at later phase.

  8. #68
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    I think a bit depends in what the "cure" of undeath would entail. If for some magic reason they be back to being humans, I think is very possible that there would be a sedition between people wanting to rejoin the alliance and people invested to their new allies. But I think that after all that they have been through as a people, the forsaken would stay together.

    Now, I was also thinking, what if the forsaken use Mogu-derived tricks to live again? turn the flesh into stone, and then turn the stone into flesh back again? Or just like Mogu magic; Mogu spirit binding requires a spirit to be bound to a constructed vessel, a vessel that can be turned into flesh. All forsaken are basically spirits, so they would just have to build new vessels for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by MargrimEU View Post
    The Forsaken were instumental to the Wrathgate-incident, no Forsaken equals no New Plague
    That's so pretty faulty logic there, it's like saying that without humans, there's no war. Or in WoW, without Orcs, there is no horde, and none of the wars happened. You postulate some weird retroactive causality that just can't be.
    Last edited by TheDangerZone; 2012-11-29 at 08:04 PM.

  9. #69
    I hope they never are cured. Assuming the necromantic magics sustain them, and they don't need to eat (just have an urge to eat flesh like zombies) I'd consider being Undead a decent crack at immortality. Being a nihilist, none of the unholy magic crap bothers me, in fact if I died and had the opportunity to be an evil spirit that haunts children, I'd take it!

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by MargrimEU View Post

    The Forsaken were instumental to the Wrathgate-incident, no Forsaken equals no New Plague
    Thats like saying that the orcs are responsible for every splinter group of orcs. Or the darkspear are responsible for everything the zandalari. Putress and the wrathgate incident was executed by a splinter group that broke off and attacked. The forsaken as a nation, wasn't responsible for their attack.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 01:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Very true

    People always love bashing the Forsaken for being "evil", but honestly, they are a race of rotting undead, do people really see them acting like goody 2 shoes?
    Nearly ever race is obsessed with being the most honorable. Like its a race to be the "goodest". I like the forsaken because they just don't care. I play to escape the real world not recreate it.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Icarris View Post
    Nearly ever race is obsessed with being the most honorable. Like its a race to be the "goodest". I like the forsaken because they just don't care. I play to escape the real world not recreate it.
    Indeed. However, since the real world is already full of evil, sadness and indifference, people will generaly escape it by imagining they can make it better, not worse.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Hovsa View Post
    If they were cured of undeath, they would be... dead... you know, like they were before being raised...
    This. I would also like to add another point that has disturbed me lorewise. The Scarlet Crusade has been the righteous merciful faction this WHOLE time, they are trying to cure the undead of their torment, and the only way to do that is make them dead again. Yet everyone is charging into their church and killing them?! WTF! Did anyone else question why players have to fight against the Scarlet Crusade in the first place?

    I can understand why the undead themselves are fighting the Scarlet Crusade, conflict of interest, but what about the rest of the living? The crusade fights against the undead... why is the Alliance trying to stop them from doing this? Why are they not allies of the Alliance if they're doing the work? Horde is the only one with a legitimate excuse to fight against the Scarlet Crusade, if only because the forsaken are a tool they need.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    wrathgate had plenty to do with the forsaken

    during vanilla you help make this eventual plague. the forsaken right under sylvanas under her orders make it.... putress just used it a tad early
    Eh, you make most of the Wrathgate plague during the Horde questline that leads up to the Wrathgate itself. It all takes place in Venomspite.

    Of course, lore-wise, Sylvanas and the majority of the Forsaken outside of the Apothecary knew that Putress was going to use it on the living as well. I'm pretty sure Sylvanas would have stopped it otherwise. It's not good PR to kill off Horde soldiers.

    Was it the Forsaken's fault that the Wrathgate happened? Obviously. But just some rogue Forsaken that betrayed their leader and the majority of the Forsaken, and partnered up with Varimathras who took over their city.

  14. #74
    Titan Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    I wonder how Abominations will look like after they get 'cured'

  15. #75
    One more thing about the Scarlet Crusade lore that bothers me. Deathknights start out by fighting them, because you're under control of the Lich King - leader of the undead. Makes sense you're playing the bad guy point of view, until you are redeemed and accepted by either the Horde or Alliance to fight in their ranks against the Lich King.

    So the Scarlet Crusade is heading to Northrend to... do exactly what the Horde and Alliance are doing, they're trying to wipe out the undead with us trying to HELP OUT. And what do we do when we get to Northrend? Fight against them in their meager establishments, as if they aren't already having trouble fighting the undead. It makes no sense. For crying out loud they have the courage to settle right next to Naxxramas! And attack it! Also in Icecrown! And we are STILL fighting against these crusaders. Then we align ourselves with the Argent Dawn... who allows forsaken to fight in their ranks. Uh hello Alliance, wtf are you DOING!? They are the enemy, remember? Again the Horde has a good reason to align with the Argent Dawn in this case, however the Alliance does not.

    In my opinion the Alliance should have aligned with Scarlet Crusade, and the Horde with Argent Dawn. The only instances I've seen for why the Scarlet Crusade attacks us is purely out of self defense. I have never seen them launch an invasion against Horde or Alliance. They are not totally insane, they are just doing what they think is best for their survival, and they're right to kill the undead on sight. They can still join the Alliance, doesn't mean they have to like Deathknights. It's not like every faction on the Horde likes each other either. The forsaken are practically conspiring against the Horde at every turn anyways, as demonstrated in Dragonblight.

  16. #76
    You forgot the part they attack ANYONE on sight.

  17. #77
    The curse goes as deep as to alter their very soul, kinda doubt they can ever be cured. If they could be, they would either die, or be completly resurected, on the second case i doubt they would want to go back with the Alliance after being abandoned by them, besides i'm not sure Varian or Worgens would be very willing to take them back after the Wrathgate's event and Greymane's son murder.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Superchief View Post
    One more thing about the Scarlet Crusade lore that bothers me. Deathknights start out by fighting them, because you're under control of the Lich King - leader of the undead. Makes sense you're playing the bad guy point of view, until you are redeemed and accepted by either the Horde or Alliance to fight in their ranks against the Lich King.

    So the Scarlet Crusade is heading to Northrend to... do exactly what the Horde and Alliance are doing, they're trying to wipe out the undead with us trying to HELP OUT. And what do we do when we get to Northrend? Fight against them in their meager establishments, as if they aren't already having trouble fighting the undead. It makes no sense. For crying out loud they have the courage to settle right next to Naxxramas! And attack it! Also in Icecrown! And we are STILL fighting against these crusaders. Then we align ourselves with the Argent Dawn... who allows forsaken to fight in their ranks. Uh hello Alliance, wtf are you DOING!? They are the enemy, remember? Again the Horde has a good reason to align with the Argent Dawn in this case, however the Alliance does not.

    In my opinion the Alliance should have aligned with Scarlet Crusade, and the Horde with Argent Dawn. The only instances I've seen for why the Scarlet Crusade attacks us is purely out of self defense. I have never seen them launch an invasion against Horde or Alliance. They are not totally insane, they are just doing what they think is best for their survival, and they're right to kill the undead on sight. They can still join the Alliance, doesn't mean they have to like Deathknights. It's not like every faction on the Horde likes each other either. The forsaken are practically conspiring against the Horde at every turn anyways, as demonstrated in Dragonblight.
    The Scarlet Crusade or Scarlet Onslaught are a bunch of fanatical crazies who think that anyone who is not in their rank is against them. They were also always lead by poeple possessed by demons (Balnazar or Mal'Ganis). We attack them because they are attacking us. Not the other way around.

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