1. #1

    Relic of Xuen VS Terror in the Mists (HC) in Patch 5.1

    So seeing as both the static Agility and the Agility you receive from the proc from Relic of Xuen will increase when it's upgraded with VP, does anyone know if this trinket will become the 2nd best one in the tier? Terror in the Mists held (might still hold) that spot, but seeing as the proc from it gives you Crit Rating rather than Agi, I'm wondering if the improved proc from RoX will beat the sheer number of passive Agi and proc-Crit that TitM gives.

    Thanks in advance for answers!
    o/

  2. #2
    I've calculated the EP values a few days ago because I was thinking the same thing as you do, however Terror still beats it.

    Assassination
    relic upgraded
    5093.46144 | 1030*2.712 + 0.26*3262*2.712

    terror upgraded
    5341.61508 | 1401*2.712 + 0.19*8402*0.966

    Combat
    relic upgraded
    5204.27052 | 1030*2.771 + 0.26*3262*2.771

    terror upgraded
    5601.47226 | 1401*2.771 + 0.19*8402*1.077
    Last edited by Ashvael; 2012-11-28 at 08:46 PM.

  3. #3
    The relative positions shouldn't normally change with an item level upgrade, and Ashvael has already provided the answer.

    I don't care, however- by the time my team makes a heroic terror in the mist we won't have overmuch progression to go. I upgraded my relic promptly.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    I upgraded my Relic first off as a test. I planned to let the other agi classes take Terror first. If we get enough to drop by the time everyone has one I'd take it.

  5. #5
    Yea i'm going to do the same aswell :/ I'm nowhere near HC Terror so I guess this is my best bet at an upgraded "normal" item if I have to for progression

    And by the way yes relative positions could change because a lower itemlevel trinket will gain a higher stat % with upgrades (+8 is more to 476 than +8 is to 509) even if the difference is small, it exists and the question had to be asked
    Last edited by hihu; 2012-11-28 at 11:15 PM.

  6. #6
    Alrighty, glad to see someone already did the maths. Thanks for the answers!
    o/

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by hihu View Post
    (+8 is more to 476 than +8 is to 509
    Incorrect. Item level does not work like this. In fact, +8 will give more raw stats to a 509 than a 476, because the payoff in stats is exponential.

  8. #8
    (+8 is more to 476 than +8 is to 509)
    Wrong.

    +8 iLvl = item stats * 1.08

    509 stats > 476 stats
    509 stats * 1.08 > 476 stats * 1.08
    509 stats * 1.08 - 476 stats * 1.08 > 509 stats - 476 stats

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Draigars View Post
    Wrong.

    +8 iLvl = item stats * 1.08

    509 stats > 476 stats
    509 stats * 1.08 > 476 stats * 1.08
    509 stats * 1.08 - 476 stats * 1.08 > 509 stats - 476 stats
    Why would you calculate * 1.08? Items are not getting a percentage-based increase - they're just getting +8 itemlevels always. If we would calculate 509 stats*1.08 we would have the item budget of 550 items.

  10. #10
    Right, he should have multiplied by 1.077.
    Last edited by Verain; 2012-11-29 at 06:48 AM.

  11. #11
    right, this should have been obvious my apologies

  12. #12
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Just as a question, would not upgrading your weapons first be the most prudent method of valor point spending?
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  13. #13
    Unless you're planning to replace them in short order, yes. In the long-term, you'd probably want to pick by pieces you'll keep the longest.

  14. #14
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Unless you're planning to replace them in short order, yes. In the long-term, you'd probably want to pick by pieces you'll keep the longest.
    Bearing in mind it would take about half a year to upgrade a full set, I'm not sure that's all that important :P
    I am the lucid dream
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvael View Post
    Why would you calculate * 1.08? Items are not getting a percentage-based increase - they're just getting +8 itemlevels always. If we would calculate 509 stats*1.08 we would have the item budget of 550 items.
    Since WotLK, a difference of iLvl is calculated in percentage, ie. if item A is 10 ilvl above item B, then each of A's stats is roughly 10% aboce B's stats. Before it was a linear increase (+X ilvl = +X to each stats).

    Should have said XXX's stats rather than XXX stats, my bad.

    And Verain is right, it's not exactly *1.08 but *1.077.

  16. #16
    My apologies. Did, in fact, not know the scaling worked like this.

  17. #17
    It's most easily tested on a caster. My druid's 463 dagger had ~5.1k SP, and at 471 had 5.5k (6.6k with a 491). If we assume linear scaling, I have no SP at all with a 359 weapon, yet I distinctly recall spellpower on weapons being quite important in Cata =)

  18. #18
    it was stil worth asking due to different "secondary weights" as a gain of 200 agi is worth 200*2.712 as listed above but a gain of 200 crit is only worth 0.966 so the gap between them will be smaller and for some items ( especialy ones with sockets due to how socket budget allocation is at the 0/0 level) will change in the bis list, or more specifically ones with "hit" or "expertise" as we will reach caps with less slots with hit/exp on them same for haste plateau's for some casters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    What the fuck did you just say.

  19. #19
    Can someone do the math for an upgraded Relic vs unupgraded HC Terror?

  20. #20
    People seem to be missing the point of the 8% (actually 7.7%). If one's ahead before upgrading, it's ahead after upgrading, because they both improved 7.7%. The numeric gain difference is the old numeric gain difference +7.7% of that numeric gain difference (from upgraded to upgraded). To see un-upgraded HC Terror vs. upgraded relic, give relic 7.7%, compare to pre-upgraded HC terror.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 04:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashvael View Post
    I've calculated the EP values a few days ago because I was thinking the same thing as you do, however Terror still beats it.

    Assassination
    relic upgraded
    5093.46144 | 1030*2.712 + 0.26*3262*2.712

    terror upgraded
    5341.61508 | 1401*2.712 + 0.19*8402*0.966

    Combat
    relic upgraded
    5204.27052 | 1030*2.771 + 0.26*3262*2.771

    terror upgraded
    5601.47226 | 1401*2.771 + 0.19*8402*1.077
    And original stats, courtesy of EJ:

    Asssassination:
    [Terror in the Mists] (heroic) 5028.38
    [Relic of Xuen] (Darkmoon) 4861.48

    Combat:
    [Terror in the Mists] (heroic) 5,076.65
    [Relic of Xuen] (Darkmoon) 4,881.43

    Granted I think we're comparing Ash's weight values to EJ's BiS values, but the point stands well enough that you can multiply.
    Last edited by Kael; 2012-11-30 at 09:23 PM.

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