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  1. #1

    Balance - Another "Cry" For Help

    Guys, It's a cry for help - it really is

    Getting rather frustrated with Balance at the moment - only really started playing Druid at start of expansion, as much as it's fun - when raiding I feel like I really should be outputting more dps. Last thing I want is to hinder the guild when should be aiding it. Any information, advice or anything else you wish to throw my way would really be appreciated

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9abbwjwpvuxqj5a2/ - World of Logs Parse
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ADlly/advanced - Armory

    Got a couple new pieces gear today, but want to try and sort things out before next raid.

    Thanks in Advance.

  2. #2
    I am completely useless because I don't know how to analyze your character or logs to give you any help. You definitely should be doing more damage, though, but I think it may be something more subtle than I can see. You're hit capped and at the haste softcap, and your gear looks normal. I'm not sure that you couldn't work on optimizing it more, swapping gems and reforges to try and raise your crit some more. I try to gem mostly crit until a point where I need the gems to supplement haste I can't get through reforging. You can always focus on upgrading that mithril stopwatch and your weapon, but I don't believe those few pieces are what's holding you back so much.

    My best suggestion would be to practice. Look at many different guides and sources and try out the methods and suggestions they all make, using your own judgement to draw conclusions on what you should be doing. Always make sure you're casting something and reacting to changes and things going on around you while maintaining your DPS. One of the easiest mistakes to make is losing focus on pushing your damage while other things are going on in a fight. I notice that your dps is closest to mine on Feng, which is a mostly stand there and attack fight, while on other fights with movement and adds, your dps is much lower than mine. I can only infer that perhaps you are losing DPS on these fights due to losing focus on damage while surviving.

    Not that I'm a pinnacle on balance druid damage ability - I can only just now say I'm 6/6 normal MoV since last night - but given that fact, it wouldn't be wrong to say you should be on par with or better than me in such a better guild.

  3. #3
    Really appreciate the input - I think I'm mostly after a sanity check as towards gear/reforge/gems (making sure they are correct firstly)
    And yeah I think it's going to be a case perhaps of making sure I position myself better in fights to make sure I can optimise my dps uptime. I do like playing balance - more fun than thought it was going to be. Always appreciate input from everyone - even criticism is welcome as I know I'm far from perfect but want to improve.

  4. #4
    Honestly most of what you're doing looks fine. You even got a ranking on Feng (albeit a lower one, but still most people don't rank at all). The biggest issue with why you are probably lower than your fellow raiders is you're using a blue 463 staff (You can do better from heroic dungeons - Dagger from final boss in Mogu'shan - Weaponmaster and off-hand from Rabbit boss in Brewery. Also a dagger from last boss in Scarlet (not the cathedral one) but the one from Mogushan is itemized better).

    Other than that, Mithril Stopwatch is a pretty crappy trinket, especially for moonkins. If that ten second proc comes when you are in a wrath rotation headed towards lunar, it really adds very very little. I would try farming the trinket from 2nd boss in the Wall dungeon (can't remember name). Gate of Setting Sun? Is that a dungeon? The boss that flies across the platform and leaves a trail. I'm sure it easy to find the rankings of trinkets, but I'd be surprised if Mithril Stopwatch comes ahead of the trinket I'm speaking of. Stagnant intellect as well as a huge crit proc that lasts for 25 seconds. And obviously keep doing those LFRs and hope for the trinket from Sha or Elegon.

    Keep in mind your biggest sources of increased damage come from upgrading a weapon, upgrading trinkets and getting tier bonuses. Looking at your item level, your numbers seem appropriate. You will see a big difference once you get a new weapon. And you should see an increase from just grinding the dagger and offhand from heroic dungeons.

    I'd look to use an Elder coin on Lei Shi (even though it'd be LFR) and pray for the staff. And perhaps one for Will of the Emperor (normal of course) to at least get the mace even though it's itemized poorly.
    Last edited by Purrberry; 2012-11-29 at 03:46 AM.

  5. #5
    Really appreciate the time purrberry... Drops just don't seem to happen for me unfortunately. I have the inscription off-hand ready and waiting so guess I'll sit through a few hcs today and pray for drops.
    Finding it Really infuriating as a guildie has had 5 (yup 5) weapon drops whether in guild raids or LFR - staff from lei-shi which he de'd much to my sobs.
    Again big thanks for everyone's time and hopefully can report back with things improving

  6. #6
    Milli, I think you are doing ok.
    I also switched to balance main spec this expansion ( was mainly resto since WotLK ).

    My character: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...igneo/advanced

    My dps in MV is roughly:

    Stone guards: 70k
    Feng: 65k
    Garaj'al: 70k
    Spirit kings: 60k
    Elegon: 105k
    Will: 70k

    you:

    Stone guards: -
    Feng: 67k
    Garaj'al: 38k - but you died
    Spirit kings: 49k
    Elegon: 94k
    Will: 54k

    Your gear seems fine, you get to the haste breakpoint and then to crit. You will see a dps increase once you get a better weapon and a better secondary trinket ( Light of Cosmos is rly nice for instance ).

    Some general advices, personal feelings:

    Boomkin is a dificult spec to master, as you get more xp with it you will get better and better. Poping CDs at wrong time ( shortly before a repositioning ) or having to move often or missing you rotation decreases our dps a lot.
    if your fellow raiders are similar skilled and geared as you, don't expect to be top dps on single target fights. It might be different later into expansion ( maybe boomkin scales better with gear ) but a good mage or warlock will most of the time outdps you. But on spread multidotting we rule
    But keep in mind that balance can be nowadays a true hibryd, you can offheal realy nice ( NV or HOTW + tranq, but rejuv ), our survivability is quite high, you can adapt through talents and symb and bring utility when needed.
    On Elegon I did on some kills over 13k hps ( some over 6 mil healing ), NV heals a lot in burn phase.
    On Blade Lord Ta'yak at our first kill we lost our second healer at some 15% ( before the second run ) and I was able to help keeping raid up a lot by blanketing all the time with rejuv.
    Maybe this things are not so important in 25 man but in 10 man I feel that a good boomkin can help a lot a raid.
    DPS wise, it helps if you have the crit buff, those 5% make a difference especially on multidotting encounters like Will of the Emperor.

    Advices / tips for MV bosses:

    Stone guards: multidot dogs
    Feng: get AMS from DK and use it on Epicenter when Nullification barier is not used
    Garaj'al: try to get more times in the spirit world, besides multidotting inside you get Spiritual Innervation.
    Spirit kings: plan ahead your moving and delay using your CDs until you can stay in one place while they are up
    Elegon:
    - stay on the edge of platform finding the place where you can reset stacks by jumping
    - for best boss dps use your CDs on boss. I use INC + NV followed by CA on 1st Phase 1, 2nd Phase 2 and burn phase.
    Will:
    - most of the fight you will be dotting the bosses and the adds, I actually don't do any kind of rotation, just dot the hell out of everything and then SS on proc. I think HOTW > NV on this fight.
    - a quick a lazy way to have nice dps here is spaming on everything alive the following macro:
    /castsequence Moonfire, Sunfire
    /cast Starsurge
    Ofc is not optimal, because you should apply first the eclipsed dot but you can do quite nice dps with it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigneo View Post
    Ofc is not optimal, because you should apply first the eclipsed dot but you can do quite nice dps with it.
    Shouldn't you apply the non eclipsed one first, for a stack of LS for the eclipsed.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by oggyowl View Post
    Shouldn't you apply the non eclipsed one first, for a stack of LS for the eclipsed.
    Yes, you should.

  9. #9
    yes, indeed, my fault, normally you should apply first non-eclipsed dot followed by eclipsed dot.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 05:07 PM ----------

    Another thing to explain here: I stated before that "Boomkin is a dificult spec to master".
    I know that Lappe and others state ( or troll ) that boomkin is one of the easiest spec to play.
    I am not claiming that the spec itself or rotation are difficult. But if you miss the rotation or can't dps during CDs or make any small mistake you will see on the meters.
    You need to take every oportunity to dot additional target(s) to maximise your single target dps ( ss procs ).
    You need to check healers mana and remind them that you can innervate them. I usually offer them innervate because otherwise they asked me several times when they were almost oom and I had to stop dps-ing during CA in order to help them.
    Then you should plan to have NV off CD when there will be most damage in order to help the healers.
    There are tons of little things which add up and can make the difference between being a good or bad boomkin. But then when everything is going as planned the satisfaction is bigger
    Last edited by Bigneo; 2012-11-29 at 04:10 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigneo View Post
    - a quick a lazy way to have nice dps here is spaming on everything alive the following macro:
    /castsequence Moonfire, Sunfire
    /cast Starsurge
    Ofc is not optimal, because you should apply first the eclipsed dot but you can do quite nice dps with it.
    I don't mean to call you out here, but I highly recommend not using a macro like this. One, the macro doesn't look like it would work. Castsequence will cast moonfire, the sunfire, then reset. Because MF and SF are on the global cooldown, starsurge would never get cast using it.

    Regardless, it's easier to just use your abilities that you have on your bars as they are when you know how to use them. A macro like this could easily cause you to redot something that is already dotted or not ever cast starsurge. Even procc'd starsurges are on the GCD, so they won't go off just because you have a shooting stars proc.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigneo View Post
    I know that Lappe and others state ( or troll ) that boomkin is one of the easiest spec to play.
    There's nothing to troll at all. It is how it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigneo View Post
    You need to take every oportunity to dot additional target(s)
    This is within reason and if it proves to be worthwhile. Taking into account the said add DOT up-time you are likely to achieve before it either depawns/dies etc.

    And as for you 'macro', no.

    On a certain number of targets(use you common sense) its only going to prove beneficial to put up your eclipsed dot, not double dot everything. This can be tied in with what I have written above.
    Last edited by Stalv; 2012-11-29 at 05:44 PM.

  12. #12
    This macro actually works, sometimes can fail to cast starsurge if you spam it but even then starsurge will be casted on next usage.
    Is this macro bad because you don't apply the dots in the correct order based on eclipse ? YES
    Is this macro bad because you can redot ? YES
    Is faster and lazy to spam such a macro when you want to keep dotted 5-7 mobs, like in the case of Will ? IT IS

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigneo View Post
    This macro actually works, sometimes can fail to cast starsurge if you spam it but even then starsurge will be casted on next usage.
    Is this macro bad because you don't apply the dots in the correct order based on eclipse ? YES
    Is this macro bad because you can redot ? YES
    Is faster and lazy to spam such a macro when you want to keep dotted 5-7 mobs, like in the case of Will ? IT IS
    As above.

    10 Characters

  14. #14
    I highly highly highly recommend not using that macro. How you think it's any easier than just having sunfire, moonfire, and starsurge on separate buttons and hitting them appropriately is a complete mystery to me.

    If you are okay with non optimal, lazy gameplay, I also recommend not giving suggestions to people who are having trouble improving their DPS.

    And as Stalv said, sometimes it is actually not the best idea to double dot everything and not do anything else. It requires thought and consideration. As you get used to when is a good time to dot everything with both dots, when is a good time to dot most things with your eclipse'd dot, and when is a good time to probably just focus single target, it becomes an easier decision to make.

  15. #15
    ok, sorry for the sugestion, its a bad macro, ignore it

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by oggyowl View Post
    Shouldn't you apply the non eclipsed one first, for a stack of LS for the eclipsed.
    Something I had never thought about - should have as its obvious - and probably one of 'many' reasons why my dps is slacking.

    For everyone thats taken their time to reply to this thread - really appreciate it guys - ty

  17. #17
    OP: for Feng, if the fight lasted some 30-40 sec long you'd done a lot better cuz u'd be able to squeeze another INV+NV burst...

  18. #18
    Well you are above hit, thats bad. You can go even a bit under hit cap, by some 0.15-0.2%. Also haste breakpoint is 5273, and you are also over that by a lot, after that point you will gain more by puting more into crit.

  19. #19
    Regarding the hit - I used to be slightly under on the mage but for fights like elegon - i'd rather not take the chance (however slim) to miss a SS on the orbs. But all good points nonetheless - also couldnt get haste any closer at that time

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Stalv View Post
    There's nothing to troll at all. It is how it is.



    This is within reason and if it proves to be worthwhile. Taking into account the said add DOT up-time you are likely to achieve before it either depawns/dies etc.
    If they're spread out or if theres >4 I'll dot. If there's <4 I aoe. Works for me.

    OP: I don't know how other booms will respond to this but...balance shouldn't be top dps. They've got support mechanics that dps normally does not.

    Buffs, taunts, heals...so basically you can do a little of everything. How could you call the spec balance if they were op in one catagory...? To me feral is "hop in and murder target" balance is "stand back and make everybody's life easier".

    Basically, if the groups you run with aren't hitting enrage timers (and you're stats are right) than everybodies dps is fine, and if that's the case then you're limiting yourself by stressing about dps.

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