Heroic Space

[Deleted]

I really can't trust Bioware(EAware) anymore with there statements sadly, was a time I hung on every word but lately it's just meh.

[Kelimbror]

To play Devil's Advocate, I think the reason they are spending money on this is because even if SWTOR goes under, they can release the SSSP as a standalone game and charge $60 a pop for it. I'm sure they are already planning on doing this anyways, possibly with an integration into SWTOR...like how Blizzard games 'kinda' work with eachother with items and rewards.

It is an incredibly high possibility that something like this will happen given the lack of information they are providing and the fact that EA is pulling puppet strings.

*maniacal cackle and disappears into a swirling cloud of smoke*

[Deleted]

To play Devil's Advocate, I think the reason they are spending money on this is because even if SWTOR goes under, they can release the SSSP as a standalone game and charge $60 a pop for it. I'm sure they are already planning on doing this anyways, possibly with an integration into SWTOR...like how Blizzard games 'kinda' work with eachother with items and rewards.

It is an incredibly high possibility that something like this will happen given the lack of information they are providing and the fact that EA is pulling puppet strings.

*maniacal cackle and disappears into a swirling cloud of smoke*

Pretty much this sadly, wonder how different things would have been for Bioware if they had stayed with Microsoft Studios...

[Deleted]

To play Devil's Advocate, I think the reason they are spending money on this is because even if SWTOR goes under, they can release the SSSP as a standalone game and charge $60 a pop for it. I'm sure they are already planning on doing this anyways, possibly with an integration into SWTOR...like how Blizzard games 'kinda' work with eachother with items and rewards.

It is an incredibly high possibility that something like this will happen given the lack of information they are providing and the fact that EA is pulling puppet strings.

*maniacal cackle and disappears into a swirling cloud of smoke*

That could be it. However exactly because of the lack of information anything is possible. Not sure where the 'incredibly high possibility' comes from

Seriously though with the lack of clear info anything really is possible and so we may aswell move onto a different subject as BW 'won't be talking about the SSSP for a long time'.

Now about that ship customization on the wall of tard...

[Kelimbror]

That could be it. However exactly because of the lack of information anything is possible. Not sure where the 'incredibly high possibility' comes from

Don't take this to be insulting, but do you know the meaning of the saying 'playing devil's advocate'? Because that is the answer you are looking for. I abuse it a little, but it's basically putting forward an argument or set of ideas that I don't have to fully believe in in order to have a more rounded or exciting conversation.

In my mind, I take this particular idiom as a license to go full on tin foil hat. That is why I used high possibility.

[RoninaThorstone]

In my mind, I take this particular idiom as a license to go full on tin foil hat.

This.

Bioware could say "it will be free range, 3d space combat." and everyone would calm down.
They wouldn't have to do a massive discussion of mechanics or speeds or turning physics.
Just say that it will be free range, 3d space.
And all of us would calm down.

The fact that they refuse, even when directly asked by thousands of their paying customers, to even say 1 sentence...
Is more than license to go full tin foil. I feel compelled to.

[Deleted]

This.

Bioware could say "it will be free range, 3d space combat." and everyone would calm down.
They wouldn't have to do a massive discussion of mechanics or speeds or turning physics.
Just say that it will be free range, 3d space.
And all of us would calm down.

The fact that they refuse, even when directly asked by thousands of their paying customers, to even say 1 sentence...
Is more than license to go full tin foil. I feel compelled to.

Do you think if they come out with that line people would calm down and not ask about it? maybe in years gone by possibly, these days no chance, it would get dissected to the nth degree and any Q and A would get the same amount of questions regarding space, right now the questions are pretty much is the space project going, yes/no, revealing any details would open that particular can of worms even further.

I do think one of the things James ohlen fucked up was revealing the SSP, probably one of the many reasons hes not put infront of a camera anymore, is he even still in the team?

[Arlee]

I do think one of the things James ohlen fucked up was revealing the SSP, probably one of the many reasons hes not put infront of a camera anymore, is he even still in the team?

Yea he's still there. I think they finally realized that he doesn't read well to people though so he isn't out making public statements/doing interviews as much now.

[Kelimbror]

Do you think if they come out with that line people would calm down and not ask about it? maybe in years gone by possibly, these days no chance, it would get dissected to the nth degree and any Q and A would get the same amount of questions regarding space, right now the questions are pretty much is the space project going, yes/no, revealing any details would open that particular can of worms even further.

Not asking about it and calming down are not mutually exclusive. Asking questions out of excitement is far better than asking questions out of rapidly growing dread.

You have to realize what a fiasco space has been from the start. No one was led to believe that what is in the game now was what they were going to get. There's really only a couple of pieces of information that people need to relax on the worrying side of the questions. Namely:

1) Not on rails
2) If it's planned to be added as a patch or aiming for an expansion.
3) What the overall goal/idea for this project is.

1 should be the easiest statement they've ever made, unless they are planning to keep it on rails and know how immediately bad that impact would be.

2 Would let people stop thinking it's something immediate and can plan their playing/paying accordingly. At the moment it's just an invisible carrot they are trying to dangle over people.

3 should already be available if they've honestly been working on it this long with an actual plan to do anything with it.

None of these statements, other than off rails, needs to be qualified with a concrete answer. General plans and ideas can always be prefaced with this is subject to change, but would give infinitely more information than has ever been given on the subject.

[Cooper]

2 Would let people stop thinking it's something immediate and can plan their playing/paying accordingly. At the moment it's just an invisible carrot they are trying to dangle over people.

That's the whole point. BioWare is currently using the SSSP as a means to keep people subscribed who otherwise might not stay so, without actually committing to anything.

3 should already be available if they've honestly been working on it this long with an actual plan to do anything with it.

Not if it's been planned as an expansion which, given the little information that has been made available (pretty much none, other than supposedly they've been working on it about launch and that it's still a ways away from release), seems the safest conjecture.

[zeropeorth]

I think space combat fans are taking it a bit extreme (cue crazy loud voice)

I am not 'thrilled' with the current, but it isn't complete crap. I think, the average player wouldn't be able to deal with 'free-roam' space combat anyway ... and the amount of AI programming would be enormous, something they don't have the allowance (from parent EA) to dive into. They focused instead on making a visually good, controlled space combat.

Here is my real beef.

Instead of wasting resources on something hindsight says was a waste (I bet you a lot of the people who worked on it loved it, and be honest, if YOU wrote the code, you'd be proud of it, at least a little); all the resources tied into space combat could've been poured into polishing things that should've been polished before release ... like the UI customization we have now. A better, smarter 'GTN' than we have now (shift-click to search, when you want to list your own items instead of typing). Working the engine more, getting it smoother (ability lags, server stabilizations). Pre-made end game content for consistent patches ... easier to push out content every month or two, if you have some stuff ready to go, keeps the game 'fresh' for those who whine they have nothing to do. Yes, not all of that could've been done, reasonably ... but damn sure could've gotten a lot of other stuff done. Hell, I still think this game should've launched this xmas instead of last.

I just don't think enough of the current 'mmo' playerbase, or at least the ones they were shooting for, would appreciate -any- space combat. And the ones who truly wanted it, need it in a stand-alone game, because they want it fully featured and top quality. On a separate note, it actually showed foresight to not allow us to go underwater ... it never really brings anything to the table worthy ... look at wow's attempts. Same goes for space combat in a game designed in this way.

Feel free to disagree, but I just see them regretting, at least quietly, ever trying to put space combat in the game. The hero engine probably can't do 'Ace Combat' anyway, on rails is the best we can get.

My best guess is, part of the sssp is multiplayer space combat. I think that is the best you can hope for, at least within the next couple years, unless disney takes over, or EA stops being greedy, or F2P model brings in so much money they go insane.

IMHO

[Adam Jensen]

Maybe if they implemented something like Mass Effect's space system, you choose the sector you want to go and then fly to the planets, moons, or stations you want to go too in a free flying area that contains it, having the rail shooters works for now, but it does need something else in the long term.

Yeah, didn't understand why the galaxy map in SWTOR worked so differently from ME's galaxy map.

It's the same damn thing. They may as well cut and paste ffs.

As to the rails . . . I enjoy the space missions, but goddamn it, take us off the rails, it's retarded.

[Deleted]

In my mind, I take this particular idiom as a license to go full on tin foil hat.

Full on tin foil hat?

Ok that made me smile. I might use that myself one day soon. I'm not sure i'll succeed as it smacks of paranoia to me but the maker knows i'll give it my best.

[RoninaThorstone]

the amount of AI programming would be enormous, something they don't have the allowance (from parent EA) to dive into.

again.
Was happening in 1994.

If that games budget and engine was able to do it in 1994 than swtor should be able to do it in 2012.
(Or at least left themselves the ability to)

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 09:27 PM ----------

I mean... FFS.

If they really were hard on funding they could have been like "We want to make an awesome space expansion for swtor. Opening up crowd funding"

[Deleted]

If that games budget and engine was able to do it in 1994 than swtor should be able to do it in 2012.
(Or at least left themselves the ability to)

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 09:27 PM ----------

I mean... FFS.

If they really were hard on funding they could have been like "We want to make an awesome space expansion for swtor. Opening up crowd funding"

Agree 100%.

Take SWG as a prime example of an MMO with both ground and space combat. SWG was an MMO with a fraction of TOR's budget. SOE used a completely seperate game engine for space. Cue space pvp, exploration, mining, looting, PvE missions, fully customizable ships (I had over 150 items decorating my Decimator), multiplayer ships (friends on various turrets or in co-pilot seat), PvE invasions, space player bounties and a nice seperate profession/class (Pilot) which was available to all ground classes.


SWG 2004 Jump to Lightspeed expansion



SWG Space PvP (Deepspace) sans UI for a cinematic effect

[Morros]

Agree 100%.

Take SWG as a prime example of an MMO with both ground and space combat. SWG was an MMO with a fraction of TOR's budget. SOE used a completely seperate game engine for space. Cue space pvp, exploration, mining, looting, PvE missions, fully customizable ships (I had over 150 items decorating my Decimator), multiplayer ships (friends on various turrets or in co-pilot seat), PvE invasions, space player bounties and a nice seperate profession/class (Pilot) which was available to all ground classes.


SWG 2004 Jump to Lightspeed expansion



SWG Space PvP (Deepspace) sans UI for a cinematic effect

Out of curiosity, what were the controls for that like?

[Deleted]

Out of curiosity, what were the controls for that like?

Mouse+Keyboard or Joystick.

For a full list of all keyboard commands: http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=45391&tab=controls


Your ship's performance were based on the stats of your parts and the stats of the ship class itself. A crappy engine with a low Yaw/Pitch meant it turned like a bus. A B-wing turned like a bus. A B-Wing with a crappy engine turned so slow your enemy would die laughing...and you'd win the bout

Once you finely tuned your ship and found it's turn sweetspot then the handling became ultra reactive. For example, during dogfights my Tie Oppressor turned perfectly at 40% throttle. With practise some managed to master the art of KSE flying (KSE is Boba Fett's shipclass aka Slave I and was a guarenteed kill due to being cumbersome to fly).

Excuse the longwinded reply but the years I spent flying in SWG were my favourite moments in 25 years of gaming. Finally getting and kitting out my Tie Defender was as close to gaming nirvana as someone like me could get to. In other words I often get carried away, sorry.

[Deleted]

Out of curiosity, what were the controls for that like?

Slick as fuck. On a decent PC/connection, it was proper free form space flight, and it worked like a dream (OK OK maybe a slight bit of rose-tinted glass's there, but hey)

[WoWGoneBad]

again.

after seeing this pic i scoured the net for a good x-wing game that worked in win 7 and i am SOOOO happy i found one. it feel REALLLLLL good to be in the cockpit of a x-wing fighter even if it is from 20+ years ago. man i cant wait until i have the controls down and i can finally destroy the imps in real fighter combat again

i am playing the very first x-wing game and damn what a difference 20 years makes huh lol

[RoninaThorstone]

after seeing this pic i scoured the net for a good x-wing game that worked in win 7 and i am SOOOO happy i found one. it feel REALLLLLL good to be in the cockpit of a x-wing fighter even if it is from 20+ years ago. man i cant wait until i have the controls down and i can finally destroy the imps in real fighter combat again

i am playing the very first x-wing game and damn what a difference 20 years makes huh lol

wait. What?

Is it an emulator? How?

I need to know.