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  1. #1

    6/6 MSV, question regarding Stone guards and Feng HC

    Ok we finally got 6/6 MSV after just 2+ weeks of raiding, our roadblock liek others was Elegon lol.

    just a quick question regarding first 2 on HM as my plan is to lead the raid for a fast MSV clear, dong 2/6 MSV HC and rest on normal, then progress HoF. I don't want anymore HC bosses for the first week as i rekon/believe spirit binder + will consume to much time for any HoF progress, we raid 3 nights a week.

    Stone Guards:

    On heroic the only difference really, is the amount of overload damage right? 1 wrong overload is a wipe (like it should be).
    Jade shards hit a bit more and cobalt mines 1 shot.
    The tiles mechanic is just making the fight easier? only take when the right petrify is happening for like no damage but a buff?
    Cheers .

    Feng:

    On heroic whats different? i know we get to choose his weapon choice, but are all 3 of these phases like normal? i know on HC dmg is higher but yeah.
    I know there is 1 new phase, what is the recommended way to deal with it? for example, weapon order.

    Our normal kill for feng is around 5 mins, so would it be worth 3 healing ?

    Cheers, i plan to recap tacts like always but just a few general questions im wondering about.

  2. #2
    For the doggies the tiles are a key mechanic. For each one you light up healers get 1% more spirit and you do 1% more dmg. This is needed to counter the increased boss health pool and higher raid damage.

    For feng I think the general order is arcane > adds (new phase) > earthquakes and fire

    It's easy to derp on arcane with arcane resonance so get it out of the way first. 2 reasons for this. You know early if its a wipe and secondly the boss gains 5% damage per phase so doing it later will make an already painful phase hurt even more.

    The new phase takes a bit of practice but it boils down to nullifying one and aoe'ing the unnullified one really really hard. Even if the adds are a long way off the shield if they don't die within a certain amount of time they just get sucked in.

    The only other difference im aware of is the lightning fists, its a fork of 3 lines now instead of one line.

    Advice will vary because you always get the "lol i solo healed it with bandages" crowd but i'd reccommend 3 heals. The damage can be quite spiky. I also find that with the huge amounts of vengeance tank swops become a bit of a pain in the arse so its not too uncommon for us to get more stacks of debuff than we should. I think the true test is you need to take him thru each phase in the time it takes for him to use each ability 4 times. This allows you to always nullify the first of a new ability.

  3. #3
    Stack tiles like mad for the dogs. Aim to reach 80-100 stacks asap at the start and every time they reset.

    For feng, as said above, Arcane > Shadow > Earth > Fire. Practice each phase seperately first. Make sure you have enough aoe for the adds. Rotate the bubble and CDs.

    Easy.

  4. #4
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    On Feng you can mix Shadow and Earth around. Make sure to stun or bubble every single earthquake during earth phase, but you will still take some ticks of AE damage when you bubble (6 sec bubble on 8 sec earthquake) so you might want to do the shadow phase third. While progressing, first do several tries with shadow phase first to get that one down, practise killing 2 waves of adds and using bubbles on the others.

    If your tanks got the taunting of Dogs down, and your DPS doesn't suffer from not-looking-at-timers-nor-energybars, Dogs should be easier, as long as you only get chain stacks whenever jasper petri is up, and clear mines constantly. Stacks should constantly be gotten by those not chained (preferably the ranged), but between 80 and 75, 50 and 40, and 20 and kill, you want to not run tiles, as it would be wasted effort due to despawns. 100 stacks of tiles at those points should be about right.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanath View Post
    Stack tiles like mad for the dogs. Aim to reach 80-100 stacks asap at the start and every time they reset.

    For feng, as said above, Arcane > Shadow > Earth > Fire. Practice each phase seperately first. Make sure you have enough aoe for the adds. Rotate the bubble and CDs.

    Easy.
    What is the benefit of doing fire very last? I saw a couple guides that said to do arcane > fire > shield > earthquake. Would fire hurt considerably more as the 4th phase with 20% damage increase.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Reshi View Post
    What is the benefit of doing fire very last? I saw a couple guides that said to do arcane > fire > shield > earthquake. Would fire hurt considerably more as the 4th phase with 20% damage increase.
    It's "bubble the first draw flame, kill boss before second one". You pop BL when he's swapping to fire, and pray to whatever you belive in he's dead before second draw flame.

    Should he be at low %HP he can be taunt-kited a bit, so you get some extra time to burn him down

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Reshi View Post
    What is the benefit of doing fire very last? I saw a couple guides that said to do arcane > fire > shield > earthquake. Would fire hurt considerably more as the 4th phase with 20% damage increase.
    Theres more rng involved in dealing with the earthquakes. At least you know what you are getting with fire last. I'd imagine its perfectly killable in any order. Play to what suits your strengths.

  8. #8
    We are actually doing Fire second. Makes it the easiest for us. Do not bubble first draw flame. If done properly boss only gets 6 stacks, but really anything below 12 is OK. Shield the second draw flame, get into next phase before third. Simple as that. Did earth last since it is the lowest damage phase.

  9. #9
    This is our strat for tiles on dogs:
    • Every DPS runs 2 stacks of tiles at the start of the fight. Pop hero and burn when we hit 100 stacks.
    • If we have chains, the first two DPS chained run tiles the whole fight after the first reset. Once there's 5-10% hp left until the next Power Down, just DPS the boss. Start again after power down.
    • If there aren't chains, two of our most mobile DPS run it: usually Fire Mage or Aff Lock or Boomkin.

    An easy way to cheese the chains is to have a third tank. Anyone in a tank spec will not get chained, which means you will have an extra person not chained too. Have the extra tank and the unchained person run tiles the whole fight.

    Feng is really easy. Just use your shield and your reversal properly. We found this order easiest: Arcane > Shadow > Earth > Fire. With the kind of gear you should have now, killing Feng before the second Draw Flame should be very easy (we did it the first heroic night in a lot of blues). We almost kill him before the first now.

  10. #10
    ty all, i know they're both easy, and the tips on Feng will definantly help, but can someone answer my stone guard question please, is the difference from N to HC only the tiles? i see quite a few 6/6 MSV guilds with no HC kills, but stone guards dosent sound different at all apart from the tiles.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyTwelve View Post
    ty all, i know they're both easy, and the tips on Feng will definantly help, but can someone answer my stone guard question please, is the difference from N to HC only the tiles? i see quite a few 6/6 MSV guilds with no HC kills, but stone guards dosent sound different at all apart from the tiles.
    Tiles are the only completely new mechanic. You have to use them effectively to beat the enrage because they have loads more HP on Heroic. Healing seems a lot higher too, which is where the increased spirit comes into play.

    Aside from that, mines one shot, pools are actually dangerous, jade is still a joke, and chains are better left unbroken.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Tiles are the only completely new mechanic. You have to use them effectively to beat the enrage because they have loads more HP on Heroic. Healing seems a lot higher too, which is where the increased spirit comes into play.

    Aside from that, mines one shot, pools are actually dangerous, jade is still a joke, and chains are better left unbroken.
    ok, thanks for the help then, my group always 2 heals it fine, 1 shotting every combo lately, jasper chains cause no issue for us really, they did but now we get em perfect but i'll see how the dmg is with petrify and judge if i'll leave em, the tile mechanic, is it simply you get to choose 1 of 4 crystal things (they're always there to take) and then u get the 10x stack / dmg thing, or is it, they randomly spawn and you can take em.

    One last question, if done perfectly the tile mechanic does no damage? if we only get the tile buff when the petrify is going to reduce the dmg by 90% from THAT tile buff.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyTwelve View Post
    ok, thanks for the help then, my group always 2 heals it fine, 1 shotting every combo lately, jasper chains cause no issue for us really, they did but now we get em perfect but i'll see how the dmg is with petrify and judge if i'll leave em, the tile mechanic, is it simply you get to choose 1 of 4 crystal things (they're always there to take) and then u get the 10x stack / dmg thing, or is it, they randomly spawn and you can take em.

    One last question, if done perfectly the tile mechanic does no damage? if we only get the tile buff when the petrify is going to reduce the dmg by 90% from THAT tile buff.
    The crystals are always up behind where the bosses spawn. When you pick them up, you get a huge DoT with 10 stacks. Petrify reduces this damage. Whenever you run over a tile, it loses a stack and lights up the tile. You just grab the crystal of the current petrify. Later in the fight, you may have to skip tiles on really fast Overloads. A full 10 stacks does a bunch of damage without Petrify; make sure you only have 0-3 stacks left when Overload goes off.

    If possible, I would 3 heal your first few attempts and decide from there whether or not to 2/3-heal. Our healers think 2-heal is doable now, but it definitely wasn't when we did it the first heroic week.

  14. #14
    We are 2 man healing it now but we used 4 healers on first kill.

    Enrage timer is a joke, the tank can almost solo the enrage.

    If you have Jade up, I would 3/4 heal.

    If you jade is down go ahead and 2/3 heal.
    Jade is really the most dangerous boss. The raid damage from him is very high.
    We go with the tactic of never breaking the chains except if melee gets them.
    Breaking the mines when cobalt is active.

    Amethyst is the easiest guardian.

  15. #15
    I am aware that amethyst is the easiest guardian among the four. But, I thought Jasper is the most dangerous boss.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by harhis23 View Post
    I am aware that amethyst is the easiest guardian among the four. But, I thought Jasper is the most dangerous boss.
    Chains is just a retard check. The problem is that chains and mines to do not kill you if your full HP. However Jade does insane raid damage which turns the other abilities non lethal.

    Jades damage is unavoidable, the others are easily avoidable.

    If you got the jasper, amethyst, cobalt combination, the only way that you can really die is if you run into a mine while chained or run into a mine and get an amethyst pool under you while rooted.

    Either way if any of those happens, your kinda bad.

  17. #17
    It's pretty pointless to argue about which specific statue is easiest/hardest when the whole encounter is extremely easy; however, according to the healers in my guild, they don't even have to pay attention to the damage Jade does. Smart heals take care of it no problem.

  18. #18
    Cheers for all the info, i believe the combination next week is going to be amethyst, jade, cobalt anyway. Been rigth about the past 3 combos and we've had jasper up 3x in a row so it's time he sat out for a week . we normally 2 heal as i said, and the damage on hc from jade is only like 30% increased, and instead of being on my monk, i'll be on my paladin which should push 30khps tanking 2 dogs so i'll see how things go.

    Once again, cheers for the information hoping for a fast 2/6Hc first night along with the others on normal.

  19. #19
    I think you underestimate this a bit. We didn't have much tries on Feng, but we needed some tries on Stoneguard HC. If you have a shitty combo this can get a pretty hard. On normal it doesn't matter which combos you have. But I think on HC at least the chains are pretty annoying and they hurt A LOT if you stand far away when they spawn. You also have to care of them when running for tiles. In the first week we tried it we had green, blue and red and we found that this combo was pretty hard to beat.

    I think Feng isn't THAT hard, because there isn't that much RNG in this fight. But you also have to have some good DPS to kill the Adds. Especially if you have classes that are not that good on AoE this can get pretty tough, because you have to kill every add and you only have a set number time (if you don't kill them fast enough they will be ported into the shield - and yes that happens ). The other stuff is learnable, but I can imagine that the damage gets pretty harsh in P3 and P4. I would recommnd going HoF. The first boss is complete free loot (killed it in the second try I think). Second boss is also doable, though the enrage is a bit tight in the beginning and you have to get yourself a strategy for the tornados and running together.

  20. #20
    UPDATE: went in with setup below;

    Tanks;
    Prot pally (me, new toon cause i was monk and we had 6 people sharing tier, re rolled to make it fair, my pallys ilvl was 463 LOL and i tanked both dogs...)
    blood dk

    Dps
    Aff lock (i think)
    Fire mage
    Fury warrior
    BM hunter
    WW Monk

    Healers
    Holy pally
    MW Monk

    Anyway we explained stone guards, and our holy pally dc'd (game time runout) he went to repay, so we pulled to attempt boss, we wiped at 90%, MW doing 80k hps... holy pally came back, and 2 attempts later the boss died... Easy

    PROBLEM:
    Feng HC, we normally kill within 5min-6 on normal
    Problem was the shield phase, we just started opening with shield phase to pratice it, the shield spawned quite close, and when we made it spawn at 1 end of the room, and everyone even melee ran max range (other side of room) it still didn't work, as after a while the adds got PULLED INTO THE SHIELD.

    Our aoe couldnt take adds down before they reached the shield. I believe we can kill this boss easily but this is the only problem. how we was dealing with it;
    we had our tankf ace boss against wall near the wep he gets shield from, and ranged and melee stood behind boss, stuend, aoe'd they reached, they then tried when the boss did the sheild, all run to the other end of room, this went ok but the adds eventually got pulled into the shield and healed to full.

    How should our comp deal with it? we're aiming for 4 shields max, so i was thinking/said to; kill adds-barrier-kill-barrier-next wep.

    first phase; hunter slow trap / reck bladestorm warrior + spread dots mage, rest just standard aoe, didnt work, we also tried warrior go shockwave.
    2nd phase; barrier
    3rd phase; was gonna combust spread / bladestorm if off cooldown
    4th; barrier

    we didnt do 1 perfect first phase. no WoL but you know our comp, is it doable?

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