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  1. #1621
    Quality has nothing to do with "good taste". Quality is a system that uses alot of factors of the raw material, the processing of the raw material to when it hits your tray.
    Quality is about deliviring a consistent product, that tastes pretty much the same, wherever you go and whenever you buy it. I can't see how ANYONE can say that McDonalds can't deliver good quality meals. Sure, they may not taste good, but that's now what quality is about.

    Budweiser is a very good example. Beer that doesn't have much taste at all, but that beer will taste the same whereever you buy it in the entire world.

  2. #1622
    Quote Originally Posted by Longhaired Lowlife View Post
    Quality is about deliviring a consistent product, that tastes pretty much the same, wherever you go and whenever you buy it.
    wait, what? you are talking about consistency. that is nothing to do with quality. i could produce sandwiches that taste like old feet, every single time. thats consistency. its bugger all to do with quality.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  3. #1623
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    WoW saw massive growth in WotLK
    That's not actually the case. This may have misled them into thinking they had to reverse Wrath-easiness for Cataclysm.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  4. #1624
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    wait, what? you are talking about consistency. that is nothing to do with quality. i could produce sandwiches that taste like old feet, every single time. thats consistency. its bugger all to do with quality.
    If your intent is to produce sandwiches that tastes like old feet, then sure, that's quality. Quality has nothing to do with personal taste preferences.

  5. #1625
    Quote Originally Posted by Longhaired Lowlife View Post
    If your intent is to produce sandwiches that tastes like old feet, then sure, that's quality. Quality has nothing to do with personal taste preferences.
    Of course it does. Quality cannot be defined in the absence of some external standard, which in most cases is the desire of those paying for the good or service.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  6. #1626
    Bloodsail Admiral DonQShot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longhaired Lowlife View Post
    If your intent is to produce sandwiches that tastes like old feet, then sure, that's quality. Quality has nothing to do with personal taste preferences.
    lol what a meningless argument

  7. #1627
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Of course it does. Quality cannot be defined in the absence of some external standard, which in most cases is the desire of those paying for the good or service.
    Of course it can. Your specification of taste is old feet. Alot of food products have the same taste specification, and like people who enjoy old feet (isovaleric acid, which smells like old feet) probably buy old cheese from France or whatnot.

    Quality is all about objectivity. Quality is about setting up specifications how a product is supposed to look, smell, feel and taste like. How that will be accomplished, how to control quality. There you have it. A standard. without subjective feelings regarding "good" or "bad" taste.

    Subjective taste is something marketing people concern themselves with. The people who make the products and test the products care about consistency.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 04:35 PM ----------

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_%28business%29

    There you go. Basic quality lesson.

  8. #1628
    Quote Originally Posted by Longhaired Lowlife View Post
    Of course it can. Your specification of taste is old feet. Alot of food products have the same taste specification, and like people who enjoy old feet (isovaleric acid, which smells like old feet) probably buy old cheese from France or whatnot.

    Quality is all about objectivity. Quality is about setting up specifications how a product is supposed to look, smell, feel and taste like. How that will be accomplished, how to control quality. There you have it. A standard. without subjective feelings regarding "good" or "bad" taste.

    Subjective taste is something marketing people concern themselves with. The people who make the products and test the products care about consistency.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 04:35 PM ----------

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_%28business%29

    There you go. Basic quality lesson.
    i would suggest that if you are going to make posts using a word in a specific technical sense, rather than its general "wider world" sense, that you make that clear from the start. your comment made no sense at all if you use the accepted sense of the word quality.

    i would also suggest not going for a patronising tone with the people that called you out on this; the confusion was caused by your failure to properly explain yourself.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  9. #1629
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    i would suggest that if you are going to make posts using a word in a specific technical sense, rather than its general "wider world" sense, that you make that clear from the start. your comment made no sense at all if you use the accepted sense of the word quality.
    Even in the sense he's using, he's wrong. The wikipedia page says:

    "Quality in business, engineering and manufacturing has a pragmatic interpretation as the non-inferiority or superiority of something; it is also defined as fitness for purpose."

    In all these endeavors, quality ultimately comes down to "does it serve a purpose". This purpose is externally imposed, and ultimately derives from the subjective desires of people.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  10. #1630
    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    And yet, this model had real progression, gear lasted longer than the current teir, it was addictive, kept people playing and the game grew as a result. The give everyone everything additude broke the game and its never recovered.
    Dead on. TBC is the x-pac that built WOW into the sub monster we saw in Wrath. Yes it was flawed and yes there were imbalances but those imbalances also made the game feel more alive. Now GC and Co. have sucked all the life out of the game in the name of balance.

    Homogenization and giving everyone a ticket to the big dance means that everyone "wins" and if you let everyone win then there's nothing left to play for.

    It would be interesting to see where WOW would have been if they stayed with the TBC end game model for Wrath and beyond.

  11. #1631
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    WoW saw massive growth in WotLK
    Dont think so.
    see http://kotaku.com/5469063/world-of-w...wth-since-2008
    With massive i have other numbers in mind.
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  12. #1632
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Even in the sense he's using, he's wrong. The wikipedia page says:

    "Quality in business, engineering and manufacturing has a pragmatic interpretation as the non-inferiority or superiority of something; it is also defined as fitness for purpose."

    In all these endeavors, quality ultimately comes down to "does it serve a purpose". This purpose is externally imposed, and ultimately derives from the subjective desires of people.
    Or how well the marketing works. Tasteless or bad tasting products that sells well are very common. It's a matter of "does it taste like it's supposed to" rather than "does it taste good". But yeah, if it doesn't sell well the most likely cause is it's because it tastes bad, even if that's the way it's supposed to taste. That's one of the main reasons feet smelling cheese is nothing more than a niche market for cheese geeks.

    I work at a brewery, with quality control/quality assurance, where the quality of a product is determined by analyzing it's chemical composition and sensoric evaluation where we taste and smell the beer. We never say "it tastes good/bad" because such a statement contains no useful information other than my personal opinion, and my personal opinion is always "it tastes bad" because it's a really disgusting product, but through marketing it's the largest brewery in the country and most people drinks the shit. "Slight smell of cooked vegetables and a metallic tone in taste" is a short and common sentence in a sensoric evaluation report.

  13. #1633
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulli View Post
    Dont think so.
    see http://kotaku.com/5469063/world-of-w...wth-since-2008
    With massive i have other numbers in mind.
    I'm with you. I'm tired of all the misinformed players who think it was Wrath that grew the game.
    Wrath maintained the game and offered slight growth. TBC with all it's flaws and exclusionary end game is what grew the game to record numbers.

    I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.

  14. #1634
    Quote Originally Posted by Longhaired Lowlife View Post
    "Slight smell of cooked vegetables and a metallic tone in taste" is a short and common sentence in a sensoric evaluation report.
    thats a weird coincidence, that was how i described Cata.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 05:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.
    amen to that.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  15. #1635
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    I'm with you. I'm tired of all the misinformed players who think it was Wrath that grew the game.
    Wrath maintained the game and offered slight growth. TBC with all it's flaws and exclusionary end game is what grew the game to record numbers.
    My sentiments exactly.
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  16. #1636
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Again, nostalgia is at work. If the BC model had been repeated in Wrath the results would, I contend, have been disappointing, even disastrous.

    BC was success in spite of its end game, not because of it.
    I doubt it. I remember all of the complaints regarding Cata because it didn't have a relatively easy entry-level raid like Kara or Wrath's Naxx...the ramping up of the difficulty level of raid content as the expansion went along is in my opinion what a good expansion should entail. Cata's easiest raid tier was its last, which is just odd.

    I am also rather old school in the fact that I don't think players are entitled to down a boss just because they pay $15 a month, making separate difficulty tiers wasn't the best solution imo.

    If Blizzard made LFR as challenging or at least closer to as challenging as normal mode raiding is and shared a lockout with 10/25 man raiding (so that players had to choose one progression path) with each path giving separate rewards and a progressive ramp-up of difficulty level as an expansion went along, raiding would probably be as close to ideal as I could think of.

    Obviously this is all my personal opinion.
    Last edited by Celista; 2012-12-15 at 06:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    And since we're dredging up old-world stuff, she should be happy she was even allowed to become a nurse at all instead of being raped.

  17. #1637
    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    I'm with you. I'm tired of all the misinformed players who think it was Wrath that grew the game.
    Wrath maintained the game and offered slight growth. TBC with all it's flaws and exclusionary end game is what grew the game to record numbers.

    I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.
    BC was also a fresher video game in a time that was much better for video games in general, unlike now. MOP, and Activision in general, doing so well despite the poor video game market is relatively impressive.

  18. #1638
    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post
    I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.
    A thousand times this.

  19. #1639
    Quote Originally Posted by mkultra55 View Post

    I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.
    Comical when he has to do that so people would excuse bad (or lack of) content and balance.

  20. #1640
    Warchief Saluin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seja Victrix View Post
    It's startling how long this thread has gone on for.
    The funny thing is I have read most of the pages, it is a cat and mouse game and will never end. Osmeric will bump it at any chance he gets.

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