It's startling how fast game activity is falling

[Deleted]

If your intent is to produce sandwiches that tastes like old feet, then sure, that's quality. Quality has nothing to do with personal taste preferences.

lol what a meningless argument

[Deleted]

Of course it does. Quality cannot be defined in the absence of some external standard, which in most cases is the desire of those paying for the good or service.

Of course it can. Your specification of taste is old feet. Alot of food products have the same taste specification, and like people who enjoy old feet (isovaleric acid, which smells like old feet) probably buy old cheese from France or whatnot.

Quality is all about objectivity. Quality is about setting up specifications how a product is supposed to look, smell, feel and taste like. How that will be accomplished, how to control quality. There you have it. A standard. without subjective feelings regarding "good" or "bad" taste.

Subjective taste is something marketing people concern themselves with. The people who make the products and test the products care about consistency.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 04:35 PM ----------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_%28business%29

There you go. Basic quality lesson.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Of course it can. Your specification of taste is old feet. Alot of food products have the same taste specification, and like people who enjoy old feet (isovaleric acid, which smells like old feet) probably buy old cheese from France or whatnot.

Quality is all about objectivity. Quality is about setting up specifications how a product is supposed to look, smell, feel and taste like. How that will be accomplished, how to control quality. There you have it. A standard. without subjective feelings regarding "good" or "bad" taste.

Subjective taste is something marketing people concern themselves with. The people who make the products and test the products care about consistency.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 04:35 PM ----------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_%28business%29

There you go. Basic quality lesson.

i would suggest that if you are going to make posts using a word in a specific technical sense, rather than its general "wider world" sense, that you make that clear from the start. your comment made no sense at all if you use the accepted sense of the word quality.

i would also suggest not going for a patronising tone with the people that called you out on this; the confusion was caused by your failure to properly explain yourself.

[Osmeric]

i would suggest that if you are going to make posts using a word in a specific technical sense, rather than its general "wider world" sense, that you make that clear from the start. your comment made no sense at all if you use the accepted sense of the word quality.

Even in the sense he's using, he's wrong. The wikipedia page says:

"Quality in business, engineering and manufacturing has a pragmatic interpretation as the non-inferiority or superiority of something; it is also defined as fitness for purpose."

In all these endeavors, quality ultimately comes down to "does it serve a purpose". This purpose is externally imposed, and ultimately derives from the subjective desires of people.

[mkultra55]

And yet, this model had real progression, gear lasted longer than the current teir, it was addictive, kept people playing and the game grew as a result. The give everyone everything additude broke the game and its never recovered.

Dead on. TBC is the x-pac that built WOW into the sub monster we saw in Wrath. Yes it was flawed and yes there were imbalances but those imbalances also made the game feel more alive. Now GC and Co. have sucked all the life out of the game in the name of balance.

Homogenization and giving everyone a ticket to the big dance means that everyone "wins" and if you let everyone win then there's nothing left to play for.

It would be interesting to see where WOW would have been if they stayed with the TBC end game model for Wrath and beyond.

[Skulli]

WoW saw massive growth in WotLK

Dont think so.
see http://kotaku.com/5469063/world-of-w...wth-since-2008
With massive i have other numbers in mind.

[Deleted]

Even in the sense he's using, he's wrong. The wikipedia page says:

"Quality in business, engineering and manufacturing has a pragmatic interpretation as the non-inferiority or superiority of something; it is also defined as fitness for purpose."

In all these endeavors, quality ultimately comes down to "does it serve a purpose". This purpose is externally imposed, and ultimately derives from the subjective desires of people.

Or how well the marketing works. Tasteless or bad tasting products that sells well are very common. It's a matter of "does it taste like it's supposed to" rather than "does it taste good". But yeah, if it doesn't sell well the most likely cause is it's because it tastes bad, even if that's the way it's supposed to taste. That's one of the main reasons feet smelling cheese is nothing more than a niche market for cheese geeks.

I work at a brewery, with quality control/quality assurance, where the quality of a product is determined by analyzing it's chemical composition and sensoric evaluation where we taste and smell the beer. We never say "it tastes good/bad" because such a statement contains no useful information other than my personal opinion, and my personal opinion is always "it tastes bad" because it's a really disgusting product, but through marketing it's the largest brewery in the country and most people drinks the shit. "Slight smell of cooked vegetables and a metallic tone in taste" is a short and common sentence in a sensoric evaluation report.

[mkultra55]

Dont think so.
see http://kotaku.com/5469063/world-of-w...wth-since-2008
With massive i have other numbers in mind.

I'm with you. I'm tired of all the misinformed players who think it was Wrath that grew the game.
Wrath maintained the game and offered slight growth. TBC with all it's flaws and exclusionary end game is what grew the game to record numbers.

I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.

[Huehuecoyotl]

"Slight smell of cooked vegetables and a metallic tone in taste" is a short and common sentence in a sensoric evaluation report.

thats a weird coincidence, that was how i described Cata.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 05:35 PM ----------

I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.

amen to that.

[theWocky]

I'm with you. I'm tired of all the misinformed players who think it was Wrath that grew the game.
Wrath maintained the game and offered slight growth. TBC with all it's flaws and exclusionary end game is what grew the game to record numbers.

My sentiments exactly.

[Celista]

Again, nostalgia is at work. If the BC model had been repeated in Wrath the results would, I contend, have been disappointing, even disastrous.

BC was success in spite of its end game, not because of it.

I doubt it. I remember all of the complaints regarding Cata because it didn't have a relatively easy entry-level raid like Kara or Wrath's Naxx...the ramping up of the difficulty level of raid content as the expansion went along is in my opinion what a good expansion should entail. Cata's easiest raid tier was its last, which is just odd.

I am also rather old school in the fact that I don't think players are entitled to down a boss just because they pay $15 a month, making separate difficulty tiers wasn't the best solution imo.

If Blizzard made LFR as challenging or at least closer to as challenging as normal mode raiding is and shared a lockout with 10/25 man raiding (so that players had to choose one progression path) with each path giving separate rewards and a progressive ramp-up of difficulty level as an expansion went along, raiding would probably be as close to ideal as I could think of.

Obviously this is all my personal opinion.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

I'm with you. I'm tired of all the misinformed players who think it was Wrath that grew the game.
Wrath maintained the game and offered slight growth. TBC with all it's flaws and exclusionary end game is what grew the game to record numbers.

I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.

BC was also a fresher video game in a time that was much better for video games in general, unlike now. MOP, and Activision in general, doing so well despite the poor video game market is relatively impressive.

[Deleted]

I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.

A thousand times this.

[Vivek]

I wish Greg Street would stop telling us what's fun and what's not.

Comical when he has to do that so people would excuse bad (or lack of) content and balance.

[Thulvaso]

It's startling how long this thread has gone on for.

The funny thing is I have read most of the pages, it is a cat and mouse game and will never end. Osmeric will bump it at any chance he gets.

[Leonard McCoy]

BC was also a fresher video game in a time that was much better for video games in general, unlike now. MOP, and Activision in general, doing so well despite the poor video game market is relatively impressive.

I wouldn't say it's impressive. Something as massive as warcraft has a momentum to it and die hards (of which their are quite a few) aren't likely to go anywhere.

As for all the TBC guys I'm just gonna say that it isn't 2008 anymore. The game had to move away from it. The fact that in MoP the developers have attempted to regress the game at all is stunning and it shows a real lack of any ability on their part to innovate.

[Osmeric]

The funny thing is I have read most of the pages, it is a cat and mouse game and will never end. Osmeric will bump it at any chance he gets.

Does what I write disturb you so much that you have to fabricate such nonsense?

[Belize]

Elder Scrolls Online is gonna kill WoW.

SW:ToR was supposed to. Rift was supposed to, hell they even had it in their commercial that they were going to beat WoW.

I really wish people would get the idea that there's going to be a "WoW killer". It's childish and been proved false. If anything, people are going to lose interest and move on, but one single game is not going to take all the playerbase away.

[BrerBear]

Does what I write disturb you so much that you have to fabricate such nonsense?

He says as he bumps it again.
Your posts aren't disturbing. They're annoying, because nothing of substance is being said in this thread anymore.

[Leonard McCoy]

Does what I write disturb you so much that you have to fabricate such nonsense?

His wish is to get this thread shut down so he floods it with crap, insists that it's doom and gloom because it merely SUGGESTS something critical about the game.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 08:18 PM ----------

He says as he bumps it again.
Your posts aren't disturbing. They're annoying, because nothing of substance is being said in this thread anymore.

Then don't post here. Nobody asked you and you don't add anything constructive to the conversation anyway.