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  1. #21
    I mean all three specs are "viable".. but based on the current encounters there is literally no point in going anything but BM or Survival if you're looking to maximize your dps..

    they should buff steady shot already, most wet noodle resource generating ability...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Whyevernot View Post
    Who the hell links sims when comparing dps?

    Sims are so far from what things are actually like on live. If you want cold hard facts, check raidbots in a week or two weeks time and compare then.
    People don't play the spec unless it sims well, sorry, its how it has worked since using sims became mainstream.

    If there is a community "consensus" that MM is bad, nobody will play it. In addition, the closest fight to a patchwerk fight for comparing dps is feng normal this tier, and well, heroic raiders are killing.... heroic feng.....

    And yes, if you are min maxing, there is little reason to choose anything but BM. However some of us are not in peak progression guilds and would be okay with losing a few thousand dps if it means playing a spec they enjoy ( or even are better at!)

  3. #23
    A simcraft author admitted there was a bug preventing Simcraft from applying Serpent Sting damage correctly in the buff thread yesterday. Now that the bug has been fixed, hunters show as middle of the pack on their home page. This would have more than likely been bugged for the entire expansion.

    It just goes to show how one little mistake in sim code can make a class/spec look completely useless.

    In order for sims to matter, the sims have to be accurate. And honestly, WoL reports don't support most of the numbers simcraft states right at the moment. Even before the heavy nerf to fire it was reporting Frost or Arcane as the top DPS spec, yet even on single target encounters fire was dominating by quite a wide margin. Hunters were showing at the bottom of the pack in single target, yet WoL had us in the upper middle. The list goes on...

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Aertea View Post
    A simcraft author admitted there was a bug preventing Simcraft from applying Serpent Sting damage correctly in the buff thread yesterday. Now that the bug has been fixed, hunters show as middle of the pack on their home page. This would have more than likely been bugged for the entire expansion.

    It just goes to show how one little mistake in sim code can make a class/spec look completely useless.

    In order for sims to matter, the sims have to be accurate. And honestly, WoL reports don't support most of the numbers simcraft states right at the moment. Even before the heavy nerf to fire it was reporting Frost or Arcane as the top DPS spec, yet even on single target encounters fire was dominating by quite a wide margin. Hunters were showing at the bottom of the pack in single target, yet WoL had us in the upper middle. The list goes on...

    Well, it wasn't off by as much as you're thinking. Simcraft was putting it at 2.9% and heres a random hunter parsing on feng normal (#2 parse), on a patchwerk fight, it did 6.5% of his personal damage. His pet was half of his overall so his total contribution was slightly less than 3.25% from serpent sting. Thats not exactly enough to make us "middle of the pack" before this hotfix.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j3...&e=1637#Krunok

    WOL wasn't reporting us consistently on upper to middle on single target, it was average at best and the number of fights where it was average was limited to feng and vizier normal, and blade lord normal/heroic.

  5. #25
    Anyone else excitingly waiting for draco to come and pwn everybody with his wisdom?

  6. #26
    MM has not received changes that have made it better to a degree that push it towards being comparable yet. It has received quality-of-life changes that are very good, but little in the way of genuine numbers for buffs.

    These are the only three buffs it has technically received since the beginning of the expansion:
    100% increased Serpent Sting damage. All specs received this buff so it doesn't really matter.
    20 seconds on Steady Focus instead of 10.
    Focused Aim lasting until 80% instead of 90%

    These alone aren't enough. The extended SF just gives you more flexibility but unless you've full on stopped DPSing, you're never going to take advantage of the full duration of the buff before refreshing it, so realistically, it's adding just a couple extra seconds at the most for you.

    Focused Aim gives MM the front-loadedness it hasn't had since T11, but ultimately isn't going to change things too much over the course of a full fight.

    Simple reality is, MM needs a small direct damage buff of some sort - preferably in steady shot - to make it strong enough to be competitive with both Surv and BM, because it still doesn't have the single target or AoE capabilities that it needs.

    EDIT: I keep calling it improved steady shot, I need to stop doing that.
    Last edited by Herecius; 2012-12-02 at 05:17 PM.

    Heroic Recruitment -- Hersh's multi-PoV kill vids. -- Raids & Dungeons & Hunter kitty
    no one huntars like gaston

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Aertea View Post
    A simcraft author admitted there was a bug preventing Simcraft from applying Serpent Sting damage correctly in the buff thread yesterday. Now that the bug has been fixed, hunters show as middle of the pack on their home page. This would have more than likely been bugged for the entire expansion.
    No it was in the hotfix code section (there is a code section that overrides the tables with the spell dmg modifiers and such things for hotfixes). The actual serpent calculation was not touched and worked fine. This btw would have corrected itself when a new data dump of the spell modifiers/dmg and so on would have been implemented.

    What everyone can do is strip your hunter naked, get a "light crossbow" (12dmg) and test all abilites' dmg numbers to the ones simc gives you for that naked char. This way you can assure the numbers are correct. (At least don't use temporary effects like trinkets and so on).
    Last edited by Draeblin; 2012-12-02 at 05:16 PM.

  8. #28
    @herecius you forgot the mastery buff. At some point it was to go from 80 to 100%, but havent tested MM yet, cant confirm.
    The increased duration to 20sec is defenetly a dmg increase. I had to quite often chose the not optimal thing to do to keep that stupid buff rolling. It should be np to have 100 uptime while doing the perfect dmg rota

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    @herecius you forgot the mastery buff. At some point it was to go from 80 to 100%, but havent tested MM yet, cant confirm.
    The increased duration to 20sec is defenetly a dmg increase. I had to quite often chose the not optimal thing to do to keep that stupid buff rolling. It should be np to have 100 uptime while doing the perfect dmg rota
    It wasn't at all hard to have a 90%+ uptime on it before, I maintain that it is mostly a convenience thing.

    You're right though, I did forget the mastery buff, but unless you're either stacking mastery or have some awesome luck, Wild Quiver has never been that huge a chunk of your damage... outside of an aoe fight, at any rate.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-02 at 09:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Draeblin View Post
    What everyone can do is strip your hunter naked, get a "light crossbow" (12dmg) and test all abilites' dmg numbers to the ones simc gives you for that naked char. This way you can assure the numbers are correct. (At least don't use temporary effects like trinkets and so on).
    This is not a good idea because different specs scale differently with stats. It will never be a good idea to test like this.

    I really really WANT MM to be on top. I really do. Being able to cast Aimed Shot on the move, the quality-of-life changes in general... it makes it both very enjoyable and very laid back to play.
    Last edited by Herecius; 2012-12-02 at 05:48 PM.

    Heroic Recruitment -- Hersh's multi-PoV kill vids. -- Raids & Dungeons & Hunter kitty
    no one huntars like gaston

  10. #30
    I dont say it was hard to have a 90+ uptime. You just had to sonetimes decide to do something non-optimal, as delay Cs to do a second StS, or let the buff fall off shortly. This wont happen anymore.
    Even if you had a 90%+ uptime, its a 10%- buff ;-)

    It is a buff to WQ by 25%, defenetly makes a few dps, derenetly in the thousands.

    Mm still doesnt stand a chance. It has no niche.
    BM is singletarget and burst
    SV AoE and Multidot
    MM still cant do anything better than the others. As they now all have mobility, the only niche left would be cleave...
    (or start doing something better than the other speccs strengths. Or pvp^^)
    Actualy i wouldnt want MM to be a cleave specc. Otherwise we would need triple specc xD

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    This is not a good idea because different specs scale differently with stats. It will never be a good idea to test like this.
    It is the only way to test for abilities like serpent sting being implemented correctly. You can do a test naked with light crossbow and then one with your equip (minus proc effects) and light crossbow if you want to test any scaling (you mean RAP*x/mastery modifiers I think?). This way you can also compare easily the damage numbers from your combatlog with the ones simc gives you (because all your attacks do just one damage number and not a wide range of numbers).


    "MM still cant do anything better than the others."

    Well you can get easy rankings :>
    Last edited by Draeblin; 2012-12-02 at 06:10 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    It wasn't at all hard to have a 90%+ uptime on it before, I maintain that it is mostly a convenience thing.

    You're right though, I did forget the mastery buff, but unless you're either stacking mastery or have some awesome luck, Wild Quiver has never been that huge a chunk of your damage... outside of an aoe fight, at any rate.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-02 at 09:46 AM ----------


    This is not a good idea because different specs scale differently with stats. It will never be a good idea to test like this.

    I really really WANT MM to be on top. I really do. Being able to cast Aimed Shot on the move, the quality-of-life changes in general... it makes it both very enjoyable and very laid back to play.

    Wild quiver on my protectors kill this week was 11% of my damage.... thats pretty substantial, it was more than arcane shot....

    SF change was actually huge before the patch it was easy to keep up but not easy under bloodlust and ESPECIALLY under rapid fire. If you kept it up under rapid fire, you would focus cap for a dps loss. Now you can keep it up.

    CA phase is more than doubled, ( more than doubled since if you lust you no longer blaze through it)

    5% ranged AP. Marks got huge buffs. Its better than survival was pre SS buff and its better than a few specs at the moment.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Whyevernot View Post
    Who the hell links sims when comparing dps?

    Sims are so far from what things are actually like on live. If you want cold hard facts, check raidbots in a week or two weeks time and compare then.
    except that is worthless after a big damage shift like we just had.
    Last edited by Nemesis003; 2012-12-03 at 10:39 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Purifico View Post
    Sorry but no.

    noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic-dps
    Those rankings look completely wrong to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

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