1. #1

    [Fire] How much is your average ignite for combustion?

    Hey guys

    I wanted to ask this for a long time. How much is you average ignite for combustion?

    I here a lot about combustion that are like 80k or even 100k. I ONCE also managed to get a combustion over 100k with the Alter Time + PoM stuff, but usually my ignite is like 40k to 60k in this combination. If I go for a "normal" combustion they are 30k to 40k. Is this normal or way too low? I'm not the super hardcore player, but I'm passionate and I want to do the best I can.

    So what are your ignites/combustions?

    Best,
    Reflection

  2. #2
    Very roughly estimated, in 491 gear:

    With Alter Time and all procs I expect 80k minimum but that's once a fight.

    With Alter Time alone (during the fight) I expect 50k+.

    Without Alter Time I expect 35k+.


    I'd advise you to take into account that people like to exaggerate and will say things to suggest that they regularly get 80k combustions in the middle of fights. That said, if you aren't: geared / gemmed / reforged / skilled / educated - then - you'll have trouble with combustions. If someone regularly gets 100k+ on the pull they've probably done their homework.
    Last edited by azzgunther; 2012-11-30 at 03:11 PM.

  3. #3
    That sounds reasonable. I always get mad when the first combo doesn't work out. Sometimes (like yesterday) none of those stupid pyros in the complete combo critted and I stood there with a 20k ignite -> congrats -.-

    Do you use PoM or not? Maybe I should try to skip it, especially on the first combo.

  4. #4
    Usually on pull with alter time and all procs Im aiming for 70/80k minimum. I usually get that lovely 80k and with luck I can get 100k+ (my highest was around 130k with 3 480k pyro crits in a row on Feng HC pull)
    Alter Time alone or even without it im aiming for 50k ish and usually achieve that but sometimes I can get unlucky and finish it up with 30ish k.
    This is being 493 geared, no dmg increasing mechanics or buffs/debuffs.

    There is no way you can get regular (every single one) 80k combustions unless you're extremaly lucky (like, hiting Lotto jackpot kind of luck)

  5. #5
    Aaah now that sounds good And I thought I would totally suck. My ilvl right now is 485 (could be 487, but I went for 2 LFR T14 pieces).

  6. #6
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    How can you launch 4 pyros if the Ignite buff only lasts for 4 sec? By the time you cast combustion after the 4th pyro, the first and maybe even second pyro has already been forgotten due to the GCD being 1.2-1.4 sec each.

  7. #7
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    482 iLvl;

    On-pull I'll be happy with 80K+, but generally try to aim for 100K (depending on proc timers, etc)
    Just Alter Time+Berserking, 50-60K+
    Normal or with PoM, anything above 40K.

  8. #8
    It last 4 sec on first spell, next spell will increase it to 6s, there is more to it, but seriously you should know by now, and i cba explaining, as there have only been 10000xxx posts about it.

  9. #9
    prepull alter time :50-70k maybe 80k once every year
    AT: sometimes up to 40k or 50
    regularly.. 28-35k

  10. #10
    looking at my wol log form yesterday, entire mv +4 first bosses in heart of fear (all normal). i had average combustion tick 43k. average tick crits 103k. my average ilvl is 489 i think or mby 490 now that ive started upgrading gear.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...icp/details/1/

  11. #11
    Did a 10man raid with i465 gear and about 21% crit with no raid mastery buff.
    Average Combustion tick was 25k. Highest ignite I saw was about 40k.
    Using the Ignition addon to track ignites.
    Last edited by houndstooth; 2012-11-30 at 07:03 PM.

  12. #12
    This Tuesday we killed 10 bosses. I ranked top 50 on 8/10 bosses. The average combustion tick 50k, average combustion crit 100k. I think I was 391 ilvl at the time.

    Cheers,
    Heiseñberg US-Illidan

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 07:09 PM ----------

    Despite what the Mage guide on this forum says, I personally think Jade Spirit is the better enchant for huge ignites. Jade Spirit + double trinket proc + pre-pot + alter time = HUGE ignites. Thats not something simcraft can calculate. One heroic elegon pull I rolled out a 165k tick/338k crit combust. Spiked 800k dps at the pull lols.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 07:14 PM ----------

    Grats on Rank 1 Elegon... think its time to get into those heroics son =P
    Last edited by dementor; 2012-11-30 at 07:10 PM.

  13. #13
    40k ignite is the lowest I can ever go even with the worst of luck and not even fireball critting with 490ilvl
    Highest I can go with no %dmg increases on normal fights is from 65k to 90k, and the very rare 110kish, also no Engineer, and only 1 int proc trinket for me.

  14. #14
    481 ilvl - I've been noticing really bad luck with HS/HU-AT/PoM combinations and end up still only hitting 30-40k because the only pyro that crits is the first one I do :/ but if it works well I usually hit 50-80k with it.

    I've even seen better luck without using pom at all, managed a 57k Combustion with just HS/HU and doing the usual cast fireball with a HS pyro after and both critting and following it up with the same combo till only HS shows and then popping combustion. It's most likely pure luck but i've actually been prefering playing without PoM, usually average 40k without using PoM or AT at all, but as said it is probably just RNG gods hating me when using chances for HUGE combustions

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    Do you use PoM or not? Maybe I should try to skip it, especially on the first combo.
    Not. As the poster above me posits, there's something weird with PoM and I suspect (though have no proof) that there is ignite munching. My ignites are substantially larger with four or five regular Pyroblasts than with the six PoM Pyroblasts. In addition Scorch is extremely useful since nearly every fight requires some decent amount of movement.

  16. #16
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azzgunther View Post
    Not. As the poster above me posits, there's something weird with PoM and I suspect (though have no proof) that there is ignite munching. My ignites are substantially larger with four or five regular Pyroblasts than with the six PoM Pyroblasts. In addition Scorch is extremely useful since nearly every fight requires some decent amount of movement.
    If by "regular" Pyroblasts, you mean from the procs of HS, it's because a HS Pyroblast hits 25% harder than a PoM pyroblast.

  17. #17
    I need help guys. My average ignite on a pyroblast crit is 20k... my combust crits for 44k max. im at 480ilvl with 27% crit. WHat am i doing wrong?

    Can someone please describe the IDEAL situation. From what i understand it is this:

    Trink procs/pots
    Pyro crit >combust > AT/PoM> pyros???

    Also, what should i be doing in the 2-4 seconds of downtime in Alter Time where i already casted the insta-pyros??

    Yesterday i did the stone guards on LFR just to test my damage, and I ended the fight with 150k DPS (all 3 of them were stacked of course) but now, today I cannot break 110k. Did i just accidentally time my combust just right? because i don't look at my procs TOO much
    Last edited by Syonu; 2012-12-01 at 06:46 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Syonu View Post
    Pyro crit >combust > AT/PoM> pyros???h
    No, not that at all. Doing that will give you a crappy Combustion and be a total waste of AT and PoM.

    There are plenty of threads about Combustion and AT/PoM usage, but a simple guide is as follows.

    Combustion takes our Ignite dot and replicates it into a new dot.
    So, for the best Combustion you want to have a really big Ignite on your target.
    To get a really big Ignite on your target you want to chain a bunch of crit Pyros onto your target in ~4 or 5 second window.

    The only way to get that number of Pyros out in that window is to:
    1. Wait til you have your Pyroblast proc up.
    2. Cast PoM and AT (macro it).
    3. Cast Pyroblast (uses your Pyro proc)
    4. Cast Pyroblast (uses your PoM proc)
    5. Cancel Alter Time to reset your buffs
    6. Cast Pyroblast (uses your reset Pyro Proc)
    7. Cast Pyroblast (uses your reset PoM Proc)
    8. Hope that a bunch of those crit meaning that you have a huge Ignite up, then cast Combustion.

    Now, it's more complex than that (weave in more Pyros from any crits that upgrade HU into a Pyro proc, paying attention to which of the Pyros crit, as a PoM Pyro hits weaker than a regular procced Pyro) if you really want to ensure you get the most out of it and you may want to cancel AT early or cast Combustion early under certain circumstances, but that is the basics behind AT/PoM usage.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    If by "regular" Pyroblasts, you mean from the procs of HS, it's because a HS Pyroblast hits 25% harder than a PoM pyroblast.
    I should have said that my ignites are larger using the conventional Pyroblast + Alter Time method than they are using the PoM + Pyroblast + Alter Time method. In the former I will hit with about four Pyroblasts within a few seconds, while in the latter I can hit with five to seven Pyroblasts (a few of which are the crappy, non Hot Streak version obviously) in a short sequence for smaller ignites.

    I don't fully understand it and I'm not ashamed to admit this, but I'd speculate that there is some sort of ignite munching going on. Also I suspect that there's just no way to squeeze enough into the ignite window via the PoM method to make a difference in ignite size vs. the conventional method; especially when some of the Pyros hitting during the PoM method are the lower damage versions. I'd be interested if someone explored this more but, to be blunt, I don't quite feel interested enough to diagnose it.
    Last edited by azzgunther; 2012-12-01 at 04:52 AM.

  20. #20
    Average combust with AT 'n' stuff, 90-120k
    Average combust without, 55-90k

    These stats are prenerf, didn't check it after nerf and considering playing frost.

    Greetz,
    Caspy <solid line>

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