Thread: Atrius speaks!

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by mavfin View Post
    Also, saying X class takes 10% more damage doesn't mean a damned thing. The question really should be "Are warriors taking more spike damage?" If they're taking 10% more damage, but smoothing it out more, that can actually be fine.

    Least total damage taken is not a tanking measurement that leads anywhere. 10% more total damage taken gets lost in the overheal, anyway. Now, if a class takes more spike damage (shield classes usually don't, by the way), then you might have a case. Otherwise, 10% doesn't mean anything.

    Would it be nice if it was less than 5%? Sure. But, they're not 'useless' now, as some of you claim. I just think some of you got used to being the best at *everything* but healing, and haven't realized it's OK if other classes can tank viably, too.

    actually even smoothed out it makes a massive difference. 10% when bosses hit 10k+ is a big change and creates extra strain on the healers and the tanks. The fact that VK suffers from both major energy starvation and shields so bad its pointless using them other than the fact we have nothing else.

    I ran comparisons with both a cleric and a rogue tank on bosses in experts and on average the cleric/rogue are taking 1k dps LESS than the warriors on incoming damage. This is a huge gap and will only get bigger as bosses get bigger and hit harder. The underlying cause is either a mix of atrius not actually knowing what hes doing. or the level of qq getting so bad that the senior devs thought fuck it make warriors usless then we dont have to listen to the shit over and over again

  2. #42
    Dreadlord Primalthirst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    846
    When a boss hits you for 30k every second for three seconds and you have 45k health, 10% is a big deal.
    BUT no survivability factor can be considered in isolation, just like no DPS factor can. You can't judge the effectiveness of a DPS player just by their Crit Power, nor can you judge a tank just by their mitigation.

  3. #43
    It must hurt being a warrior and be where the other classes were almost for entirety of the past couple of years.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    When a boss hits you for 30k every second for three seconds and you have 45k health, 10% is a big deal.
    BUT no survivability factor can be considered in isolation, just like no DPS factor can. You can't judge the effectiveness of a DPS player just by their Crit Power, nor can you judge a tank just by their mitigation.
    you do have a point.

    So i will also point out that we have:

    the worst defensive CDs
    the worst aoe threat
    the worst ST threat
    the worst utility

    when it comes to tanking its very clear cut, especially in SL. you had warriors with the best mitigation and dmg avoidance, clerics with the best utility and rogues where a bit meh.. but as rogues do good dps + best support in game it wasnt so bad.

    at present there is NO reason to take a warrior tank anywhere unless you absolutely have to and this is the underlying problem. Its also the same for warrior dps too at present but thats a different issue.

    @needdeeps

    your clearly clueless. No other class has been at a point of being the worst at everything with no acual point to them. throughout every patch since release each class has had its niche.

    clerics the best healers
    mages the best ranged dps
    rogues the best supports
    warriors used to be top tanks/mellee dps (and considering if you dont tank you melee dps its fair enough)

    right now warriors are

    worst tank
    worst dps (both melee and ranged)
    worst support (as it requires you to be in mellee something the retarded boss designs generally kill you for)

    so don't come here sprouting crap you clearly don't know anything about.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-01 at 10:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    Ok, what about Cleric and Rogue tanks then? The lack of tanks is entirely due to there not being ANY quest rewards that allow you to tank, warrior or not. I wanted to run dungeons on my rogue on the way up leveling, however queing as DPS/Support took to long and I could not que as tank because I had no tank gear at all. Despite having run both continents and having to throw away nearly identical sets of leather DPS gear. This is very poor design IMO. There should have been tanking rewards from quests while leveling. period. This is also the reason for lack of tanks.

    Also, as for Warriors being completely destroyed, it's weird that most of the dungeon runs I have been on, Experts, and Raids have included Warriors. Granted, they are not on top of the DPS meters and the healers have to work a little harder or use support with a Warrior tank, but a Warrior is completely capable of getting raid ready and performing in raid content currently.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 04:22 PM ----------



    Then to me, since Warriors are capable, and clearing the runs, the clear answer is to nerf clerics, not buff warriors.

    its not a case that warriors cannot do it. but when your looking at progression you will be looking to drop your warrior tanks and dps as they are a hinderance in both sub standard dps and sub standard mitigation. If you have other dps and a cleric/rogue tank the warrior will be off the table. no point making it a lot harder for yourself. the dmg the tanks take in comparison is already big and visible in experts. in raids it wil flag even more.

    Nerfing classes should never be the first way to go. if two other callings are performing the role just as well and another is lagging behind you lift the lagger. not nerf the former.

    though i do agree with you on the lack of tank gear whilst levelling. i got to 60 an d tanked my first dungeon still in a full hk tank set as i had received ZERO tank loot from levelling.
    this in itself is keeping tanks out of experts due to the amount of farming for world stones and crafted items just to get the set. i had a dps set of 300 hit in about 8hrs after 60. took me about 4 days to get my tank gear sorted.
    Last edited by Tsubodia; 2012-12-01 at 10:30 PM.

  5. #45
    having done extensive raid testing, we lost our shit when we saw these results.

    cleric: average melee swing from the boss: 11k

    warrior: average melee swing: 18.8k

    the warrior outgeared the cleric by miles, yet the cleric still took substantially less damage

  6. #46
    Dreadlord Primalthirst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    846
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    So i will also point out that we have:
    the worst defensive CDs
    Untrue, Warriors have much better CDs than Justicars
    the worst utility
    Depends on what you classify as Utility, Rogue can't do much outside of Physical Wellness which doesn't scale for sh!t so it practically useless at 60 and an AoE Pull. VK on the other hand has a self-cleanse, Spell Reflect, ST Pull, AoE Pull, Purge, Knockback, ST Silence, AoE Silence and an AoE Purge/Cleanse. Seems pretty darn useful to me.

    though i do agree with you on the lack of tank gear whilst levelling. i got to 60 an d tanked my first dungeon still in a full hk tank set as i had received ZERO tank loot from levelling.
    You should have replaced your tank gear with DPS gear by level ~56-58, the Armor difference alone far outweighs any of the minor stat differences.
    Nothing personal against you, just I'm not a fan of incorrect information being given to people

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Untrue, Warriors have much better CDs than Justicars

    Depends on what you classify as Utility, Rogue can't do much outside of Physical Wellness which doesn't scale for sh!t so it practically useless at 60 and an AoE Pull. VK on the other hand has a self-cleanse, Spell Reflect, ST Pull, AoE Pull, Purge, Knockback, ST Silence, AoE Silence and an AoE Purge/Cleanse. Seems pretty darn useful to me.

    though i do agree with you on the lack of tank gear whilst levelling. i got to 60 an d tanked my first dungeon still in a full hk tank set as i had received ZERO tank loot from levelling.

    You should have replaced your tank gear with DPS gear by level ~56-58, the Armor difference alone far outweighs any of the minor stat differences.

    Nothing personal against you, just I'm not a fan of incorrect information being given to people

    Warriors do not. lets look at vk shields.. lol... or reaver shield/defensive.. lol
    Pala has ok cooldowns but considering we have 3.5 tank souls and only one is even slightly close. lets stop being stupid there

    No tank at all will run a 61VK in a raid other than trash. so again. no

    GL tanking experts in your dps gear.

  8. #48
    Dreadlord Primalthirst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    846
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    Warriors do not. lets look at vk shields.. lol... or reaver shield/defensive.. lol
    Pala has ok cooldowns but considering we have 3.5 tank souls and only one is even slightly close. lets stop being stupid there

    No tank at all will run a 61VK in a raid other than trash. so again. no

    GL tanking experts in your dps gear.
    Justicar only has Just Defense and Resplendent Embrace. Good RV and PL specs have Crest of Entropy/Shield Defense and Touch of Life/Life's Rapture, PL also has Light's Protection, RV has Plague Eater if you use a bad RV spec. If VK shields weren't bugged they'd have Protective Shield and Fusion of Flesh which is on par with Justicar. Can't see how Justicar tops that.

    The only reason no-one uses VK for raid bosses because it's broken at the moment, if it worked I can guarantee everyone would be using it on Crucia.

    No-one said anything about tanking experts in DPS gear. I suggested tanking normals in levelling DPS gear if it has higher Armor than your level 50 gear, which it will. Until you actually get proper tanking gear. Avoidance stats scale terribly and Effective Health is king for progression and undergeared content, which is exactly what Experts are at the moment for most people.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Justicar only has Just Defense and Resplendent Embrace. Good RV and PL specs have Crest of Entropy/Shield Defense and Touch of Life/Life's Rapture, PL also has Light's Protection, RV has Plague Eater if you use a bad RV spec. If VK shields weren't bugged they'd have Protective Shield and Fusion of Flesh which is on par with Justicar. Can't see how Justicar tops that.

    The only reason no-one uses VK for raid bosses because it's broken at the moment, if it worked I can guarantee everyone would be using it on Crucia.

    No-one said anything about tanking experts in DPS gear. I suggested tanking normals in levelling DPS gear if it has higher Armor than your level 50 gear, which it will. Until you actually get proper tanking gear. Avoidance stats scale terribly and Effective Health is king for progression and undergeared content, which is exactly what Experts are at the moment for most people.

    everything in your post proves my point though. its all either not working or broken. ergo why bother taking a tank who is worse than other tanks? regardless of the reasons for it.

    we are not looking at "how it shold be" its very much a case of how it is right now
    Last edited by Tsubodia; 2012-12-02 at 11:31 AM.

  10. #50
    Dreadlord Primalthirst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    846
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    its all either not working or broken. ergo why bother taking a tank who is worse than other tanks?
    There is no point, I'm not saying there is. I'm fixing the incorrect statements you've made because I don't like inaccurate information being spread around.

    Also, only some of it is broken, not all of it. In fact most of it works fine most of the time, it's just when it doesn't it's severe enough to be a real problem.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •