1. #1

    Lightbulb Ultimate rogue patch note.

    After hours of unpaid work about balancing rogue class I have ended up with this.
    Please think carefully twice about the ability, if needed I could explain why I would change rogue like that.
    I understand this will probabbly never happen but rogue need more solid idea to balance them in PVP.
    Of course numbers can change.

    I know my english is not great, any feedback is welcome.




    Rogue patch note

    Those spells are now baseline with the new talent revamp and you no longer need to use talent points.

    Deadly Throw is now baseline
    Leeching Poison is now baseline
    Paralytic poison is now baseline
    Shadowstep is now baseline
    Versatility removed
    Glyph of cheap shot removed
    Glyph of shadow removed
    Bust of speed is now a glyph

    Spec:
    Assassination

    *new*Cold blood: 2 minutes cooldown, when activated the critical chance of your next ability is increased to 100%




    Ability rework:

    *New ability* Shadowstep: 20 sec cooldown down from 24 sec movement speed is increasws by 50% for 2 sec afterwards down from 70%. Learned at level 72.

    Shadow walk: in addition shadow walk increases your stealth detection while active learned at level 1.
    Relentless strikes: Now restore 5/10/15/20/25 per combo points no longer use 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.
    Redirect: count as a finishing move also you can only transfer 3 combo points but doesn't have cooldowns anymore.
    Cheap shot: now stuns for 5 seconds up from 4
    Dismantle: no longer cost energy
    feint: Using feint while the buff is active will refresh the duration in addition you can stack feint two time for a maximum of 10 seconds(only a duration tweak).
    Cloack of shadows: 1.5m cooldown down from 2m
    Expose Armor: Energy cost 30 up from 25.


    Poisons rework:

    Leeching Poison: the shiv effect from leeching poison now also steal 5% of the current target hp in nature damage.(Only work versus player) (Current hp not max hp)
    Mind-numbind poison: now also reduce the melee attack speed by 15%
    Mind-numbind poison: the shiv effect the next spell the target is casting will now have 2 seconds cooldowns increases on the next spell. Last 5 seconds


    Glyphs rework:
    Major glyphs

    - *New* Glyph of redirect: using redirect can transfer 5 combo points maximum
    - *new* Glyph of kidney shot: Kidney no longer have a cooldowns
    - Glyph of feint: using feint give two stack of feint
    - Glyph of sap*rename* *Glyph of twisted tricks*: In addition increase the duration of sap and blind on player by 2 seconds
    - Glyph of burst of speed: same but now its a glyph
    - Glyph of gouge: increases the range of gouge by 5 yards
    - Glyph of debilition: also work with gouge affter the effect end




    Talent tree rework:

    Level 15
    - Nightstalker: In addition AOE damage ability doesn't break stealth also you can't be tracked in stealth.
    - Subterfuge: Doesn't break stealth randomly (Bugfix)
    - Shadow Focus: same

    Level 30

    - Elusivness: Your feint ability also reduces all damage taken by 30% for the duration of the ability (moved to level 30 from 45)
    - Nerve strike: same work with Paralytic poison
    - Combat readiness: same

    Level 45

    - Cheat Death: In addition when you dodge or fully resisting one of their spells you add a combo point. This cannot happen more than once per 10 seconds
    - *New* Improved sprint: Sprint remove all movement imparing effects when you activate your sprint ability and you can't go lower than 100% movement speed during the duration.
    - *New* Quick recovery(passive): All direct healing effects on you are increases by 20% and Recuperate now heal for 5% maximum health every 3 sec.

    Level 60

    - Preparation: same
    - Dirty tricks: same in addition gouge no longer need to facing you. (moved to level 60 from 75)
    - *new* Quickdraw: Every time you excess 115% movement speed your dodge rating is doubled if you go under 115% movement speed you lose the bonus

    Level 75

    - Prey on the weak: same but also work with paralitic poison
    - *new* Unfair advantage: whenever you dodge or fully resisting an attack you gain an unfair advantage striking back for 100% of your main hand weapon's damage in a ranged attack 30yards. This cannot occur more than once per 5 seconds
    - Shuriken Toss (moved to level 75 from 90)

    Level 90

    - *new* Poisonous: You can now use ur poison without a casting time, they're using a poison only global cooldown.
    - *new* Overload: slice and dice and recuperate is now one ability last the slice and dice duration.
    - Anticipation: same
    Last edited by gaz770; 2012-11-29 at 07:51 PM.

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force Hysteria's Avatar
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    Let me add this :O

    - Rogue's have reverted to there cataclysm state in addition legendary daggers and vial of shadows are now scaled to 90 and will continue to scale til the end of time

    Does that work <.<?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Let me add this :O

    - Rogue's have reverted to there cataclysm state in addition legendary daggers and vial of shadows are now scaled to 90 and will continue to scale til the end of time

    Does that work <.<?
    I didn't play rogue during cata but on burning crusade and wotlk yes.
    Iv'e heard rogue was a nightmare because of those item during this time but sadly they doesn't have it anymore.

  4. #4
    The Unstoppable Force Hysteria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaz770 View Post
    I didn't play rogue during cata but on burning crusade and wotlk yes.
    Iv'e heard rogue was a nightmare because of those item during this time but sadly they doesn't have it anymore.
    Pretty much any class I faced upon the cata era even with the person in all pvp gear and such will instantly die 100-0 like you weren't going to live through me haha unless well you popped a CD of course

    Pre-nerfed vial was atrociously broken

    I didn't arena much but bg wise every single person that I cheap shotted / garrote would be dead in a heart beat :P

  5. #5
    Commenting on PvP situation as assassination rogue, no offtopic comments please.

    Expose armor is an ability that personally I havent used since I dont even remember since when basically its just occupying the spell book for no reason. Usefulness of expose armor would be for example if it removed 100% armor for lets say 5sec with 20second cooldown and/or made rogue attacks ignore shield absorbing effects so it would be viable vs plate as well as clothies. Or made it like a finishing move the less the CP used the less the %armor reduction but the higher the duration and vice versa.


    Another thing that would be nice would be to bring back thistle tea to address the energy starvating since Blizz is in a habit of removing spells in one season and bringing it back three seasons later. Only in this case it would not be an item in your bag but rather a 1min cd that would restore 80-100 energy.

    Another spell removed that was pretty decent back in the days was Overkill - energy regen after breaking stealth.

    Deadly throw + Shuriken could improve rogue "survivability" versus spell casters if it were both baseline so that rogue has both ranged generating ability and ranged finishing move, shuriken toss damage is still an utter shit even after this "doubling" of its damage at farther distance.

    Also one of the MAJOR issues is rogue stealth I mean AOE attacks should NOT remove stealth, fair enough it should get rogue in combat but in no way breaking it.

    Shadow walk - spell that is completely useless, tried it versus hunter, no use, so whatever the tooltip says is just bullshit by Blizz yet again. I am not sure about adding a stealth detection to this spell. If it worked as a defense cd with a nice shadow enveloping effect that would basically increase miss chance on rogue both from melee/ranged ie hunter/spells I guess that would be much more appreciated.

    From a perspective of assassination rogue spec, I dare any assassination rogue here to tell me if they ever use ambush. Personally I pop garrote/cheap shot 99% of the time to benefit from stun/silence/venomous wounds procs. Since ambush for assasination rogue crits about never to never-1 % of times and I wouldnt bet on it to grant me a killing blow even if I was hitting a sitting mage at 10k health perhaps a nice solution would be to replace it with something poison-related make it a more interesting/fun/unique.

    Tier1 talents subterfuge and shadow focus would be nice if combined but since subterfuge combined with energy starvation in MoP is well lets admit it equals = 1garrote + 1mutilate + maybe a cheapshot and then 10seconds of autoattacks.

    Dispatch - very nice spell, great to have been added specifically to assa to make it at least a little unique, but on the other, considering it is an execute-like ability the damage of it completely does not match its aptly chosen name. Perhaps the lower the health of the target the higher the chance to crit? So that you dont just blindly spam the button whenever it procs but perhaps wait till the last second to use it?

    Wound poison buff as of 5.1 - haha! Lovely, clearly two of the most used poisons deadly + leeching to provide at least some survivability and damage, why would anybody go for wound is beyond me. Remove wound poisons combine its utility with leeching. Same as deadly+instant -> wound+leeching.

    Add crit increasing talents for certain abilities?

    All should revolve around poisons, perhaps some procs from deadly poison ticks?

    Something like whenever rupture, garrote and deadly poison is on the target the target starts losing mana or something I dont know, just spitballing.

    Another idea - Poison bomb - damage of rogue poisons is increased by 100% to the target standing in the poison bomb also the target is slowed so you cant just pop it and the guy jumps right out, which would cancel the entire point of this offensive ability...shares CD with smoke bomb, something like paladin wings and bubble.

  6. #6
    I'll be nice and provide some constructive feedback.

    First off, I love Shadowstep and Deadly Throw as baseline abilites. I've been vying for them for a while and would consider it Christmas no matter what day it is when we got them.

    Additionally, I currently like the poison tier. It feels good to me and I don't believe they need to be baseline. I understand wanting to have all the new toys though, you want to have your cake and eat it too.

    Cheap Shot - Increased duration is interesting. I don't really agree that it needs increased, but, a 1 second addition won't do a lot. It basically lightens up the DR nerf with kidney shot we got a while back.

    Leeching Poison - 5% HP of a target using just Shiv is a lot. 20k doesn't seem like a lot, but, when considering the cost and the fact that you also gain 20k... a 40k HP shift for such a small cost doesn't seem balanced. PvP only abilities is something Blizz shys away from as well.

    Twisted Tricks - Blind and Sap on Player characters already has a very long duration, increasing them by 2 seconds makes it insanely strong and lining up kills would be trivial if any healer has to sit a full one.

    Prep - Keeping prep as a talent choice and reducing our cooldown times makes the abilities usable far too often. We want to be balanced, not broken. This also makes the rest of that talent tier obsolete.

    Burst of Speed and Imp Sprint - Being able to have both of these, a trinket, and step baseline PLUS being able to prep sprint makes Rogues near unstoppable training machines. We don't have enough mobility now, but, that is far too much mobility. There is a delicate balance and this isn't it.

    Unfair Advantage and Cheat Death - Dodging and Resisting generating offensive resources makes Evasion and Cloak of Shadows become offensive cooldowns and promotes using them offensively instead of them being defensive cooldowns.

    Poisonous - This pretty much promotes things like Totem Twisting. There is a reason you can no longer do that. Applying EVERY poison to a target by cycling through them becomes possible with a talent like this. Rogues aren't intended to use every poison at once.

    Overload - Simplifying a simple class concept even more would not solve the problems of the class being unpopular and boring to play.

  7. #7
    Commenting on PvP situation as assassination rogue, no offtopic comments please.

    Expose armor is an ability that personally I havent used since I dont even remember since when basically its just occupying the spell book for no reason. Usefulness of expose armor would be for example if it removed 100% armor for lets say 5sec with 20second cooldown and/or made rogue attacks ignore shield absorbing effects so it would be viable vs plate as well as clothies. Or made it like a finishing move the less the CP used the less the %armor reduction but the higher the duration and vice versa.


    Another thing that would be nice would be to bring back thistle tea to address the energy starvating since Blizz is in a habit of removing spells in one season and bringing it back three seasons later. Only in this case it would not be an item in your bag but rather a 1min cd that would restore 80-100 energy.

    Another spell removed that was pretty decent back in the days was Overkill - energy regen after breaking stealth.

    Deadly throw + Shuriken could improve rogue "survivability" versus spell casters if it were both baseline so that rogue has both ranged generating ability and ranged finishing move, shuriken toss damage is still an utter shit even after this "doubling" of its damage at farther distance.

    Also one of the MAJOR issues is rogue stealth I mean AOE attacks should NOT remove stealth, fair enough it should get rogue in combat but in no way breaking it.

    Shadow walk - spell that is completely useless, tried it versus hunter, no use, so whatever the tooltip says is just another lie by Blizz yet again. I am not sure about adding a stealth detection to this spell. If it worked as a defense cd with a nice shadow enveloping effect that would basically increase miss chance on rogue both from melee/ranged ie hunter/spells I guess that would be much more appreciated.

    From a perspective of assassination rogue spec, I dare any assassination rogue here to tell me if they ever use ambush. Personally I pop garrote/cheap shot 99% of the time to benefit from stun/silence/venomous wounds procs. Since ambush for assasination rogue crits about never to never-1 % of times and I wouldnt bet on it to grant me a killing blow even if I was hitting a sitting mage at 10k health perhaps a nice solution would be to replace it with something poison-related make it a more interesting/fun/unique.

    Tier1 talents subterfuge and shadow focus would be nice if combined but since subterfuge combined with energy starvation in MoP is well lets admit it equals = 1garrote + 1mutilate + maybe a cheapshot and then 10seconds of autoattacks.

    Dispatch - very nice spell, great to have been added specifically to assa to make it at least a little unique, but on the other, considering it is an execute-like ability the damage of it completely does not match its aptly chosen name. Perhaps the lower the health of the target the higher the chance to crit? So that you dont just blindly spam the button whenever it procs but perhaps wait till the last second to use it?

    Wound poison buff as of 5.1 - haha! Lovely, clearly two of the most used poisons deadly + leeching to provide at least some survivability and damage, why would anybody go for wound is beyond me. Remove wound poisons combine its utility with leeching. Same as deadly+instant -> wound+leeching.

    Add crit increasing talents for certain abilities?

    All should revolve around poisons, perhaps some procs from deadly poison ticks?

    Something like whenever rupture, garrote and deadly poison is on the target the target starts losing mana or something I dont know, just spitballing.

    Another idea - Poison bomb - damage of rogue poisons is increased by 100% to the target standing in the poison bomb also the target is slowed so you cant just pop it and the guy jumps right out, which would cancel the entire point of this offensive ability...shares CD with smoke bomb, something like paladin wings and bubble.

  8. #8
    I actually like a lot of those ideas (granted some of them seem somewhat stronger than they should be, but good none the less)

  9. #9
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    Maybe make the redirect like soulswap, where it is a buff until you cast it on a second target.
    Why is there no "Demonhunter" hero class yet? He was only the coolest hero in WC3. Get busy Blizzard.

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