[Balance] Multi-dotting help

[CailinUaigneach]

So this is a question for moonkins who have completed the Protectors of the Endless encounter in Terrace of the Endless Spring. Our first few attempts on this we were hitting the enrage timer and I was trying to figure out why when our DPS is pretty solid. I then was watching our moonkin and noticed that he was multi-dotting all 3 bosses for no reason (since they heal up when one dies and all). We then stated multiple times to our raiders that they need to be focusing down the targets one at a time (skull). He continued to multi-dot. When I approached him directly in a tell I asked him why he's still wasting GCDs to multi-dot the other targets. He claimed that when he dots the others while one of his CDs is up that it increases the damage of his dots - effectively doing more damage to our main target.

Now I personally have not played boomkin since mid Cata, but after doing some research after the raid, I could not find any information that supported what he told me. Could someone please enlighten me on how multi-dotting the other two bosses (who will later heal up) could possibly increase the damage he's doing to our main target?

As far as I could tell, he was meter padding.

[Justignoreme]

Lunar Shower http://www.wowhead.com/spell=33605

[BoysBoysBoys]

Procs www.wowhead.com/spell=93399

[Justignoreme]

Procs www.wowhead.com/spell=93399

that too. when you get a lot of targets multidotted its hard to keep up with the starsurges :3

[CailinUaigneach]

Ok thank you, the Starsurge procs makes sense. The Lunar Shower to me does not. For Lunar Shower couldn't he just cast the Sunfire/Moonfire on the same target 3 times? Plus it only lasts 3 seconds so I'm not sure I see the point. Isn't Lunar Shower more for when he's moving?

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 04:53 PM ----------

On another note though, just our of curiosity, are the GCDs to multi-dot the other two worth the time he could be spending casting Wrath/Starfire in his eclipses? Are the possible starsurge procs insanely good? If so then obviously he should keep doing what he's doing. But do you think it would be more damage to our main target if he just ignored the other two targets completely?

[Cirque]

I'm really sorry but as a fellow RL I'm gonna have to step in here.

First off, if you're hitting the enrage, then no, your DPS is not "solid". Stop focusing down the moonkin who actually tries to understand how his class works, and check why the others are not doing good enough to clear this very easy encounter.

Secondly, you need to trust your raiders to do what is the best. You cannot possibly come to the forum and publicly doubt one of your raiders. Not only is that bad for how your guild functions as a whole, but you're just creating black sheep to blame a wipe on. Your moonkin is multidotting because he believes this will be better for his DPS and you know what, regardless of your uninformed opinion on Lunar Shower, for Starsurge alone I believe it is worth it. I don't see why he'd not doubledip the benefit of multidotting to fish for Starsurge procs while also harnassing Lunar Shower. For the same reason an aff lock may corrupt the other bosses fishing for soulshards.

A way to solve this is have officers with a clue - all your officers combined will know about all classes, ALL THE WHILE trusting your raiders to know what is best for their class.

And again, honestly, hitting an enrage is not "solid DPS". I'm sorry to say but you really need to re-evaluate how you're leading your raids. Try to evaluate the raid as a whole.

[CailinUaigneach]

Your post is awesomely not helpful Cirque. Yes there were other factors that were a problem we were addressing. Such as people ignoring the corrupted waters and our other heals not dispelling very quickly. And other people were multi-dotting as well. I'm addressing the problem that did not get fixed. We downed the boss with more than a minute to spare on enrage once we got the kinks out. I'm simply looking for information on our boomkin.

I came for opinions and advice on boomkins, which is not my class, and he is a trial, so no I do not trust his judgement at the moment. If there is ANYTHING that needs addressing with our raiders, our officers and GM take care of it. Even if its to tell someone how to better themselves on an encounter. Sometimes people don't think of everything, even their own class. It's called constructive criticism.

I took his word for it, and did my own research and now I'm asking outside opinion to better my raid.

So if you don't have anything useful to say, STFU and find a new thread to troll.

[Justignoreme]

Ok thank you, the Starsurge procs makes sense. The Lunar Shower to me does not. For Lunar Shower couldn't he just cast the Sunfire/Moonfire on the same target 3 times? Plus it only lasts 3 seconds so I'm not sure I see the point. Isn't Lunar Shower more for when he's moving?

in Cata yes, but this is MoP. What he's doing is maintaining lunar shower, and guaranteeing himself starsurge procs. There's really not anything to not get about it. More Starsurge procs is more damage to the main target, no matter what.

[friedrice821]

Tell him to do one fight where he single targets, then one fight where he multi-dots. Then look at logs and see how much damage he did to the first boss.

[Deleted]

Multi dotting in a situation like that doens't make much sense to me. The extra starsurges won't make up for that.

[Deleted]

We did that boss on normal elite this week, the first week we did normal I did only single target and my dps was solid, but nothing special. This week on normal elite mode i kept the eclipsed dot on all targets and the other dot on main target and it gave me about triple the amount of SS procs as i would normally get. Since starsurge was my most damaging ability by miles on that fight i figure that it is also a single target dps upgrade to do so. Next week ill try to keep all dots on all targets all the time and see what i find then, will get back to you..

So far im pro multidotting, but as i said ill let you know next reset.

[Foto]

We did that boss on normal elite this week, the first week we did normal I did only single target and my dps was solid, but nothing special. This week on normal elite mode i kept the eclipsed dot on all targets and the other dot on main target and it gave me about triple the amount of SS procs as i would normally get. Since starsurge was my most damaging ability by miles on that fight i figure that it is also a single target dps upgrade to do so. Next week ill try to keep all dots on all targets all the time and see what i find then, will get back to you..

So far im pro multidotting, but as i said ill let you know next reset.

Do you have logs of this? I'm skeptical as to whether this will actually increase your damage on the boss instead of just your damage overall.

Certainly I'd say multidotting with CA popped will probs be worth it but other than that I doubt it would be. SS procs will only double (not triple) by putting a single dot on every target as well as the 2 on your main target

[Sunfyre]

No reason to keep lunar showering for the extra bosses.

But the shooting stars procs, yeah.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 02:39 AM ----------

Multi dotting in a situation like that doens't make much sense to me. The extra starsurges won't make up for that.

Actually yeah it does.

[Juvencus]

I have to admit that after doing this fight for the first time tonight, that I was too multidoting but only the main target and the easiest to target ( so 2/3) and only all 3 during CA. I had mad amounts of SS procs but after we hit the enrage 2 times, the RL said to stop xdoting. Raid dps went down in general but the bosses died much more faster. I resulted to mutidoting only during CA.

[CailinUaigneach]

Thank you all for the feed back, it helps a lot when breaking down our logs of the fight.

[Champatron]

No reason to keep lunar showering for the extra bosses.

But the shooting stars procs, yeah.

---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 02:39 AM ----------


Actually yeah it does.

So should I be Moonfire and Sunfire multidotting for this or just the eclipsed dot? Just wondering how many GCDs this is worth.

[Sunfyre]

So should I be Moonfire and Sunfire multidotting for this or just the eclipsed dot? Just wondering how many GCDs this is worth.

I've been doing both, because honestly it doesn't matter if it's the Eclipse or not, since the actual damage itself doesn't matter.

[NithonKT]

Honestly multidotting outside of CA seems like meter padding to me and not actual dps on the protector. The SS procs doesn't justify the GCD lost refreshing the dots on all three targets. On two targets only might be another story

[Deleted]

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vv...?s=1074&e=1447 (this is normal elite kill)

Unfortunately the time we killed it on normal before our logging guy wasnt there. So dont have anything to compare it with, but i will next week.

[Stommped]

He is 100% meter padding (although to be fair he probably doesn't realize he is). Most people have the assumption that the gcds wasted on dotting the other 2 bosses will be made up for by SS procs. They won't. And they won't until extremely high crit levels. Though doing so during CA I believe is acceptable, not 100% sure but 2 globals for 4 sets of dots should be ok.

If your confident in the intelligence of your raider simply tell him to ignore dotting the other two adds completely and instead focus on a pure single target rotation on Protector Kaolan. Unless he sabotages his performance to make it look like he was right, he will obviously do less DPS overall, but his damage done to Protector will be much higher.

I haven no idea how this rumor got started but it's beyond silly. Let's say there were 10 mobs you had to kill in order instead of three; would you then tab dot every single mob and continue to do so after they fell off? How do you think your damage would be on the mob you were supposed to kill first if you were only using SS procs and dots?