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  1. #1

    So 5.1, BM opener / 75 and lvl 90 talent choices.

    So from what i've been readin we should use AMoC now or blink strike? Which one is the best? And i see some people going Barrage instead of GT now that AOTF is removed. I would also like some help with how to open as a BM hunter because i know that it's very important to get a good start.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by homebrewd View Post
    So from what i've been readin we should use AMoC now or blink strike? Which one is the best? And i see some people going Barrage instead of GT now that AOTF is removed. I would also like some help with how to open as a BM hunter because i know that it's very important to get a good start.
    AMoC > LR > BS

    GT is still better than barrage.

    BM opener generally is to pop all your CDs in an organized manner. So something like

    Prepot

    SrS
    Dire Beast
    Stampede + rabid
    BW
    KC/BS
    LR/AMOC
    Glaive toss
    Arcane shot spam until KC is off of CD
    KC
    Readiness
    KC
    BS/LR
    BW
    Arcane shot spam until KC is off of CD
    KC
    Dire Beast

    With this opener you won't lose that many GCDs and you get 3 kill commands off in the first BW while having 2 in the last. Of course if you have your 4 piece this changes a bit.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2012-11-28 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #3
    GT is only better when both glaives hit every time which is not going to happen 10% of the time. Also the better weapon you have the better barrage gets.

  4. #4
    why does everyone keep saying LR is bad now. It isn't... It actually does a tad bit more damage if you can get the full dot on a single target readiness wait 15 seconds and get the second dot up. When i simcraft my gear which is 489 and use female dwarf they are both giving me a dps loss. If I remembered correctly AMOC doesn't benefit from BM mastery while lynx rush does and we just got a 5% buff to ranged attack power. I just hate the fact that you can't really use it on add fights cause the stupid pet jumps all over the place spreading out your dot. I just wish blizz would find a new idea for lynx rush honestly, now it's just a shorter duration AMOC 15 sec vs 30 (I'm talking BM)
    I want to have a child and use it as a pulling tool in dungeons.

  5. #5
    On a boss level target dummy MoC generally does about 30K less damage than blink strike x6. Why does everyone say MoC > BS when they do essentially the same damage over 2 minutes and BS has no focus cost? I know you guys crunch numbers but my target dummy tests do not support MoC > BS.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koraman View Post
    On a boss level target dummy MoC generally does about 30K less damage than blink strike x6. Why does everyone say MoC > BS when they do essentially the same damage over 2 minutes and BS has no focus cost? I know you guys crunch numbers but my target dummy tests do not support MoC > BS.
    You also have to remember that those 5 extra GCDs will be spent on doing damage from other sources, which in turn makes MoC better.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    You also have to remember that those 5 extra GCDs will be spent on doing damage from other sources, which in turn makes MoC better.
    but its free damage at the cost of spending focus to do less damage. You would replace an arcane shot, which is the worst focus to damage ratio shot we have.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    but its free damage at the cost of spending focus to do less damage. You would replace an arcane shot, which is the worst focus to damage ratio shot we have.
    Why do you have to be such a devil's advocate?

    You can't argue that 5 GCDs < 30k damage. That is asinine. 30k is literally one arcane shot hit, which is one GCD.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Why do you have to be such a devil's advocate?

    You can't argue that 5 GCDs < 30k damage. That is asinine. 30k is literally one arcane shot hit, which is one GCD.
    there are different sides to everything, you seem to think if people don't do everything you do they are wrong. Like your crap with wow reforge, that site consistantly reforges some people terrible compared to reforge light.

    There is more then one way to play. Just because people differ from you doesn't make them wrong.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    there are different sides to everything, you seem to think if people don't do everything you do they are wrong. Like your crap with wow reforge, that site consistantly reforges some people terrible compared to reforge light.

    There is more then one way to play. Just because people differ from you doesn't make them wrong.
    Yeah like that arguing even though you know you're wrong hence the devil's advocate. Wowreforge gives better reforges than reforelite whether you say so or not. The DEVELOPER of reforgelite also says that due to lua limitations you might not get the best reforges.

    When you're done setting up weights/caps, press Calculate. Since it might take too much time (and run out of memory due to Lua limitations), it might trade some precision for speed, but the loss should be minimal. You can click the Calculate button several times to achieve the best result.
    I also never say anything of the sort, I'm here to help people and tell them what would benefit them the most yet you're here to argue. There also is no other side to it... Even if you are using focus for AMoC (my) cobra shots hit for 20k and crit for 40k. With my levels of haste raid buffed i can get off 3 cobras within ~5 seconds. So 60k damage at worst and 120k damage at best for just cobra shotting, 150k for arcane shots at worse and 300k more damage at best and this is without glaive toss. So... yeah 30k damage isn't as good.

    Arguing on the forums isn't a good thing, so please stop being a devil's advocate.

    For example, plugging your toon into wowreforge gives you 17 crit at no cost.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2012-11-29 at 06:07 AM.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    I use aMoC as BM now along with GT, for fights where I know timing a LR or aMoC is hard(Lei Shi, Tsulong, Sha for example), I go with Blink Strike, simply because O can hit it on CD and get full benefit, whereas LR and aMoC are DoTs lasting 19(9 strikes last 4 sec after which is 15 sec dot) and 30 sec.

    ESPECIALLY on Lei Shi, you have her go hiding or get the immunity bubble which can delay your LR/aMoC or waste them.

    Tl;Dr BS for heavy target switching and immunity phase bosses.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Azortharion's Avatar
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    Opener is dependent on whether you want a short-term burst, or you are just opening on a boss. You rarely need to burst very short-term in MoP, but generally you pop your long-duration stuff at the start as to not waste it. Standard stuff.

    For just opening, it's prolly a lil dependent on whether you use Lynx Rush or AMOC (AMoC is better for almost all bosses save for Lei'shi perhaps).

    In the rare cause of using LR, this is what I do. I burst ~270k which isn't that bad for my gear I reckon. (assuming the 15s duration, just so you know that I am updated)

    Glaive Toss (highest chance to proc trinkets)
    Stampede + RF + BW + Berserking / Blood Fury
    Lynx Rush
    Kill Command
    Dire Beast
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Kill Command
    Readiness
    Kill Command
    Glaive Toss
    Dire Beast
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    BW + RF in the GCD leading up to Kill Command
    Kill Command

    And continue normal rotation.

    Assuming AMoC.

    Dire Beast
    Serpent Sting
    Stampede + RF + BW + Berserking / Blood Fury
    Crows
    Kill Command
    Glaive Toss
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    Kill Command
    Readiness
    Kill Command
    Glaive Toss
    Dire Beast
    Arcane Shot
    Arcane Shot
    BW + RF in GCD leading up to Kill Command
    Kill Command

    Continue as normal.

    ( Might have made some mistakes, do correct me).
    Last edited by Azortharion; 2012-11-29 at 10:34 AM.

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  13. #13
    thing thing i don't get with you guys an crows is when you use readiness you makes it so crows never lines up with BW the rest of the fight so you use 60 focus for every AMoC instead of 30.

    Is it better to post pone the second AMoC to line up with you 3rd BW or just keep using it out of sync with BW?

    to me i would think wait for the 3rd BW for the lesser focus cost on top of the 10% more damage for the crows.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    For example, plugging your toon into wowreforge gives you 17 crit at no cost.
    Wow, Im amazed! He would gain 17 crit which is 0.028% more crit for the price of going out of game and then follow recommended reforges instead of 3 clicks in-game (using Reforge-Lite). Talk about efficiency

  15. #15
    Just for clarification:
    aMoC does not fully profit drom the BW 10% more damage, because the dot periodically checks your stats und updates accordingly.
    Theoretically only 10 ticks gain the 10% dmgbonus.

    @nemesis: you could delay your second BW by 10sec, then you could cast the second aMoC at the last seconds of your second BW,
    Und it would align the rest of the fight.
    Its just an idea. You possibly lose some uptime of trinkets under BW (and some prepot time)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    You also have to remember that those 5 extra GCDs will be spent on doing damage from other sources, which in turn makes MoC better.
    It's even more complex than this. You also need to weigh in the loss of focus from using AMoC and those extra Arcane Shots you use, and compare this to the loss of GCDs but gain of focus when using Blink Strike. You also get more Cobra Strikes procs in the first case. As everyone can see, the math quickly gets too complex to easily calculate. This is why a simple comparison of two skills never gives you the whole truth, and in turn, makes simming a great choice to quickly and precisely compare different skills.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    Wow, Im amazed! He would gain 17 crit which is 0.028% more crit for the price of going out of game and then follow recommended reforges instead of 3 clicks in-game (using Reforge-Lite). Talk about efficiency
    Free damage is free. It doesn't matter if the gain is 1 crit rating - serious min/maxers will always use wow-reforge, simply because it's more precise and nearly as fast as using reforgelite.
    Last edited by Butu; 2012-11-29 at 12:21 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Butu View Post
    Free damage is free. It doesn't matter if the gain is 1 crit rating - serious min/maxers will always use wow-reforge, simply because it's more precise and nearly as fast as using reforgelite.
    You know we are talking about 9 DPS (not 9K DPS) on 100K DPS level here?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    You know we are talking about 9 DPS (not 9K DPS) on 100K DPS level here?
    9 dps for something I have to spend an extra 20 seconds per week? Sure, I'll take it.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    You know we are talking about 9 DPS (not 9K DPS) on 100K DPS level here?
    It's 9 dps for nothing, you don't lose anything from doing it, you don't have to change your rotation, you only have to reforge slightly differently and you do more damage.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    Wow, Im amazed! He would gain 17 crit which is 0.028% more crit for the price of going out of game and then follow recommended reforges instead of 3 clicks in-game (using Reforge-Lite). Talk about efficiency
    You do know it takes literally 3 clicks too?

    1. Go to wowreforge
    2. Click optimize
    3. Click summary
    4. Copy that
    5. Alt tab into wow
    6. Paste that into reforging addon (reforgerade)
    7. Click reforge

    Again, you can't argue that 17 crit is not better than 0 crit. You are just here to argue. As a min/maxer I make sure I get the best out of my stats and it is clearly evident (as small as you may think the gain is) that wowreforge is better than reforgelite.

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