[WW] Windwalker monk unprogressable class?

[Totaltotemic]

I said that because the topic was about 2p. If you're not using FoF on CD (or at least 5 seconds after the cooldown has finished), 2p bonus is entirely useless. That's why I called it out, because most of players who do use FoF and are getting DPS increase from it are definitely not using it on cooldown, but rather when "stars align" so to speak.

Why do you keep saying this? Do you realize that there was a major patch a few days ago that drastically changed parts of the Windwalker spec and that any evidence pre-5.1 is generally useless now? The window to use FoF has been widened by a lot, not only does it make it count for more of the total DPS but it also makes it easier to use, this isn't speculation or opinion, it's objective fact.

Also on that note, rankings in the past few days are essentially meaningless. Ascension was a huge buff for WW, of course you'll beat parses from before said huge buff. That's not even taking into account that the number of WWs present in raiding guilds is among the lowest of all DPS specs, making your top 200 more like a Mage's top 20.

[Fatalfuryy]

Without even looking at your dps meters i could tell you exactly what your doing wrong by how you reforged your gear. I'm sorry but you do not use haste to help cap other stats. Haste is a major priority which helps with energy regeneration and your melee attack. Your stats should be hit/expertise > Haste (til around 5.5-6k with ascension)> crit > mastery. By looking at your stats i could tell you are always energy starved in the middle of a fight and are just melee auto attacking until you have energy to do something else. Fists of Fury should be always be used on cooldown but never before Rising Sun Kick since you receive 15% extra damage from abilities. The reason you use FoF is to help replenish energy since it is a channeled spell you get around 60 energy back if you are low on evergy plus you do receive a dps increase from using the spell. if you are having trouble you can always use askmrrobot.com it will help with your reforges

[cybrside]

nvm i'm tired of this place.

[Alhoon]

Why do you keep saying this? Do you realize that there was a major patch a few days ago that drastically changed parts of the Windwalker spec and that any evidence pre-5.1 is generally useless now? The window to use FoF has been widened by a lot, not only does it make it count for more of the total DPS but it also makes it easier to use, this isn't speculation or opinion, it's objective fact.

Also on that note, rankings in the past few days are essentially meaningless. Ascension was a huge buff for WW, of course you'll beat parses from before said huge buff. That's not even taking into account that the number of WWs present in raiding guilds is among the lowest of all DPS specs, making your top 200 more like a Mage's top 20.

The window for FoF has not widened in a sense of the word, it has opened. Pre-5.1 FoF was DPS loss even in the most optimal situation due to being bugged. Post-5.1 it's barely above BoK, but still far below RSK. My "stas align" was just referencing the list I posted a while ago in this thread, which I think still stands. Fact is that on Patchwerk type fight if I execute my rotation perfectly, FoF is 3.5% DPS increase. Considering how it's not usable in large amounts of fights and situations, I think I'll get greater than 3.5% DPS increase from not using it and doing everything else optimally.

Also I don't like your extreme words. You're free to describe Ascendance change "huge buff for WW", since word "huge" is subjective. I'd say that buff is pretty minor, in a scale of few percentage at most. Also FoF is not buff, it's a fix to ability that was completely unusable before that.

[Serendepityz]

Without even looking at your dps meters i could tell you exactly what your doing wrong by how you reforged your gear. I'm sorry but you do not use haste to help cap other stats. Haste is a major priority which helps with energy regeneration and your melee attack. Your stats should be hit/expertise > Haste (til around 5.5-6k with ascension)> crit > mastery. By looking at your stats i could tell you are always energy starved in the middle of a fight and are just melee auto attacking until you have energy to do something else. Fists of Fury should be always be used on cooldown but never before Rising Sun Kick since you receive 15% extra damage from abilities. The reason you use FoF is to help replenish energy since it is a channeled spell you get around 60 energy back if you are low on evergy plus you do receive a dps increase from using the spell. if you are having trouble you can always use askmrrobot.com it will help with your reforges

armory is not yet updated i already switched back to haste from feedback

[Schaden]

Is Dancing Steel really that big a priority? Cause they're still 10k each on my server...

[Teriz]

I find it interesting that a weapon choice forces someone to assume that WW Monks are an "unprogressable class".

[Smurvis]

FoF sounds like the whole Unleash Elements + Lava Burst + Flame Shock thing for Elemental Shamans (at least back in Cata). Something that is higher DPS to use but you need to make sure you're in the right situation, because it's only higher DPS if you can fit it in without screwing up any other part of the rotation. I know I don't use FoF on CD either.

I only get to do Spirit Kings as WW because I'm BrM main. And only do I get to do WW cause my DPS spec is better geared than our other tank.

[Schaden]

Don't worry, man. Wait till your guild does heroic progression and they use you to cheese Black Ox Statue. They'll want you in raid then!

[Serendepityz]

UPDATE: did ToES tonight and after all weekend me working on adding FoF to my otation (wont lie not that hard) switched back to 6k haste and got the tsulong 2h staff drop i am pulling the numbers i was wanting! ranked 56th on lei shi with my new staffz and 37th on sha of fear

[Callimonk]

If you don't use fists of fury you are playing incorrectly, you can make excuses and point to the outdated simcraft all you want. The monk community doesn't need any more bad players encouraging others to ignore fists of fury, it's a DPS increase and you should learn how to use it.

+111 to this. In addition, with it scaling to haste, you can now stack it with other CDs such as Berserking (troll), Hawkmaster's, and early BL (if you aren't capping out). Also, TeB and Synapse Springs (Engineer).

There's just no reason to not use it, and if you can't fit it into your rotation, perhaps you should reallocate stats.

[Deleted]

ill comment on the FoF aswell. im ranked on all the fights ive done on my monk. Rank 2 is the best rank i got (10 man and 25). saying fof will increse your dps by 10% is wrong.. maybe on a standstill fight under the right conditions (which u rarely have due to procs/boss move/crap on the floor etc). the ONLY time i use FoF is when i need to stun a bunch of adds or when my energy is completly depleted and i got RSK fresh on the boss and no procs and i know the boss wont move for 5 sec. that being said, that happends like once per week.


now to OP. if u still haveing problems with dps its not the class since i am outperformiong alot of "op" classes atm. its how u play it. u are probably not doing what u are supposed to and ofc those weapons doesnt help. try going on noxxic and see if u can learn something there. being out dpsed by a frost dk is nothing to be ashamed of tbh.. our frost dk is pulling 100-120k on some fights so dont bother about being compared to them.

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 07:02 AM ----------

gratz man im glad you overcame it ^^

[Totaltotemic]

when my energy is completly depleted and i got RSK fresh on the boss and no procs and i know the boss wont move for 5 sec.

I'm curious as to what the point of not having procs is. As far as I'm aware, FoF's scaling should only make a BIGGER increase in DPS from use with more Attack Power. What is it that makes you feel that using it during any kind of proc is not worth it?

[Hyrican]

i think this refers to free tiger strikes and blackout kicks as procs. Which leads to capping energy or wasting procs due to FOF, which decreases the increase of using FOF because the following attacks are not able to be optimally executed

I have almost no mastery on gear (1800 to 2000) and would just remove them completely if i could. The amount of procs is a hindrance to good performance and it does not feel nice to waste them or FOF.

[Deleted]

When FoF is working with haste now, is it still 4 seconds and more attacks or does haste lower the channel time?

[SurrealNight]

I only get to do Spirit Kings as WW because I'm BrM main. And only do I get to do WW cause my DPS spec is better geared than our other tank.

You'd be surprised how poorly that works out if you do the total DPS math depending on the other tank. My BrM DPS on Spirit King's is = to # 245 WW. So I'd have to rank above that # on a spec I never really play/practice before the group even starts to gain DPS. It's a lot more viable for a low single target DPS tank class (warrior/pally come to mind) to be able to bring their DPS above tank level than a BrM going WW.

On top of that you are also saying your dropping your best geared tank into DPS which might not be smart when you move on to HoF for Zor'lok/Wind Lord (both fights BrM does great on).

[Eein]

Point the outdatedness of SimC then instead of just saying so. Their latest client is completely up to date with current version of the game. Sure it may have bugs that aren't in the game, or the game might have bugs that aren't in SimC as usual, but saying so proves absolutely nothing.

Please let me know if there are any bugs you've noticed.

In its current revision, the monk module is sound and reflects values directly from the game.

I've spent countless sleepless nights ensuring this module is accurate and up to date from patch to patch. I am very keen on similarities from whats going on in comparison to live.

When the FoF bug existed, I even scripted that in so people could weigh it for themselves. The BoK:combo breaker adds to TEB but not TP:Combo breaker, exactly how it functions in game. Among other things. Currently i'm just using observations from EJ; and I dont have time to test for bugs as I'm maining Brewmaster at the moment.

If you know of any bugs within the class please contact me in the simcraft IRC about them.

Thanks!

Eein

[Deleted]

I just fix the bugs myself... ha! :P

[Deleted]

Upgrading weapon with a new system is a viable option. DW monks does a bit better than 2H, imo.

[jaydsterc2]

Well said Moozhe.

I have 9 ranks, 5 in the top 40 and a #2 rank. I only use FoF on adds to stun stuff, never on bosses.

I'm not saying that's optimal, but I hate the spell. It has way less impact on a fight than a lot of you are making it out.

How about this... I have ranked on EVERY fight this tier with 6 number 1's and I think 12 bosses better than number 10 and I use FoF on CD on almost EVERY fight...

I'm Krazfu on Alexstrasza in the guild Lords of Alexstrasza... I can't post links but you can look me up on wow-heroes or epeen bot or whatever.