1. #1

    [General] Frost and Fire close on sims but not on live?

    Any reason for this? On simcraft it shows fire, frost, and arcane beingng within 2k of each other as far as a Patchwerk style fight, but on live my numbers are more like ~10k differences with Fire coming out ahead. What gives?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Pogolols View Post
    Any reason for this? On simcraft it shows fire, frost, and arcane beingng within 2k of each other as far as a Patchwerk style fight, but on live my numbers are more like ~10k differences with Fire coming out ahead. What gives?
    There has been a lot of discussion on this and it comes to

    A) Fire is very very very very very very very very very very very very easy to play so expect closer to maximum dps numbers
    B) Fire has a wide RNG swing so the top parses will be quite high
    C) Fire is way better at multidotting, target switching, and movement
    D) Because of the above most of the best mage players are playing fire, so you're seeing that reflected in the top of the logs
    E) Because the best mages play fire all the average sheep players play fire and contribute their RNG (and occasionally skill) to the logs inflating fire's apparent performance lead

    edit: oh and as of 5.1 combustion was broken overpowered so it really was doing at least 10k more than frost.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    A) Fire is very very very very very very very very very very very very easy to play so expect closer to maximum dps numbers
    I agree, all the pro players play frost. I mean you have like, one whole extra button to press! Oh wait no, both specs have 4 buttons. And are both easy. Sorry to knock you off your giant pedestal that playing frost has put you on.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    I agree, all the pro players play frost. I mean you have like, one whole extra button to press! Oh wait no, both specs have 4 buttons. And are both easy. Sorry to knock you off your giant pedestal that playing frost has put you on.
    you mean the giant pedestal that not playing my mage in weeks has put me on because my preferred spec is so far behind as to be considered effectively nonviable?

    That, and your first sentence makes no sense in context but I forgive you

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Fire is very very very very very very very very very very very very easy to play so expect closer to maximum dps numbers
    A bad mage might think that. Fire appears to be simple initially. The devil is in the details. Details you don't even notice.
    I think a player who is a Defender of a Shattered World, who can barely progress through normal modes and has yet to finish any heroic tier, shouldn't really be bashing things beyond his comprehension. Humility goes a long way here (nice str enchant on your feral druid btw).

    Pogolols: simcraft is an excellent program, but it's not perfect. Fire is above, or was before the recent hotfix nerfing fire hard.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Magemaer View Post
    A bad mage might think that. Fire appears to be simple initially. The devil is in the details. Details you don't even notice.
    I think a player who is a Defender of a Shattered World, who can barely progress through normal modes and has yet to finish any heroic tier, shouldn't really be bashing things beyond his comprehension. Humility goes a long way here (nice str enchant on your feral druid btw).

    Pogolols: simcraft is an excellent program, but it's not perfect. Fire is above, or was before the recent hotfix nerfing fire hard.
    In circumstances like these, I wish there was a little "thumbs up" button on MMO-Champ

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Magemaer View Post
    A bad mage might think that. Fire appears to be simple initially. The devil is in the details. Details you don't even notice.
    I think a player who is a Defender of a Shattered World, who can barely progress through normal modes and has yet to finish any heroic tier, shouldn't really be bashing things beyond his comprehension. Humility goes a long way here (nice str enchant on your feral druid btw).

    Pogolols: simcraft is an excellent program, but it's not perfect. Fire is above, or was before the recent hotfix nerfing fire hard.
    I'm pretty sure that qualifies as flaming but I'll bite

    - I'm aware of the details, obviously you havent seen many of my posts
    - I'm in a mediocre guild with a casual raid schedule but thanks for resorting to personal attacks
    - str enchant for ferals is the best option, str = AP, but again thanks for resorting to personal attacks, even if you dont know what you're talking about

  8. #8
    dennisdkramer:

    Refuting your statements by pointing out your lack of raid progression is not a "personal attack", it's merely truth. You do not know what you are talking about and should stop posting.

    A "good" mage is capable of playing all three specs and will master any of the three quickly as they change. Only a "bad" mage will limit themselves stubbornly and exclusively to one spec, as this is not only showcasing a lack of player skill, but is also showcasing you as a selfish player who puts his own personal desire to play a particular spec above the needs of his guild or raid. That is why you are in a "mediocre guild", because no "good guild" wants a player like you.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,188
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    I'm pretty sure that qualifies as flaming but I'll bite

    - I'm aware of the details, obviously you havent seen many of my posts
    - I'm in a mediocre guild with a casual raid schedule but thanks for resorting to personal attacks
    - str enchant for ferals is the best option, str = AP, but again thanks for resorting to personal attacks, even if you dont know what you're talking about
    lol. I think its easy to see who dosent know what they are talking about.
    At least your on mmo champion i guess, gives you a start to improving. Try watching some streams, running simulations and doing more general research in wow and im sure you will become a better and more knowledgable player in no time! Good luck learning this game if you need any help MMO champ is a great place to start, just make a thread, and as long as you dont come across too arrogant, people will be happy to help and point you in the right direction!

  10. #10
    Hi guys personal attacks on each other are quite stupid. K?

    Now about that Strength enchant on the druid. Guess what? He is correct. It has a slight dps gain over the next best enchant for feral druids.

    I will even link you some druids with high parses!

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ought/advanced Rank2 first boss hof

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rywak/advanced rank 10th same boss


    My god these guys must be bad using that there strength enchant...../sarcasm

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    lol. I think its easy to see who dosent know what they are talking about.
    At least your on mmo champion i guess, gives you a start to improving. Try watching some streams, running simulations and doing more general research in wow and im sure you will become a better and more knowledgable player in no time! Good luck learning this game if you need any help MMO champ is a great place to start, just make a thread, and as long as you dont come across too arrogant, people will be happy to help and point you in the right direction!
    feel free to substantiate your point and maybe I'll take you seriously

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    lol. I think its easy to see who dosent know what they are talking about.
    At least your on mmo champion i guess, gives you a start to improving. Try watching some streams, running simulations and doing more general research in wow and im sure you will become a better and more knowledgable player in no time! Good luck learning this game if you need any help MMO champ is a great place to start, just make a thread, and as long as you dont come across too arrogant, people will be happy to help and point you in the right direction!
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ought/advanced
    I guess feral druids from top guilds should do their research too, maybe they will be as good as you one day.

    edit: fuck Stomination beat me haha

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by citrique View Post
    dennisdkramer:

    Refuting your statements by pointing out your lack of raid progression is not a "personal attack", it's merely truth. You do not know what you are talking about and should stop posting.

    A "good" mage is capable of playing all three specs and will master any of the three quickly as they change. Only a "bad" mage will limit themselves stubbornly and exclusively to one spec, as this is not only showcasing a lack of player skill, but is also showcasing you as a selfish player who puts his own personal desire to play a particular spec above the needs of his guild or raid. That is why you are in a "mediocre guild", because no "good guild" wants a player like you.
    There are some cases where experience is important to theorycrafting, especially when doing so in the context of a specific encounter. This being a general spec discussion my raiding experience is really not relevant; we're talking numbers that can be sourced and proven.

    You're absolutely correct, and if my main was a mage I would most certainly do so. My mage, however, is a low priority alt that I would like to consider playing more often if the spec that I liked to play were viable relative to the other specs. I am selfish in this desire, naturally, but as i've said I would love for blizzard to balance the specs correctly. I am in a mediocre guild because I play with long time friends and prefer a casual schedule, and my work hours being long and inconsistent wouldnt allow me to raid more even if I wanted to.

    Feel free to jump in the discussion with something constructive

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pogolols View Post
    Any reason for this? On simcraft it shows fire, frost, and arcane beingng within 2k of each other as far as a Patchwerk style fight, but on live my numbers are more like ~10k differences with Fire coming out ahead. What gives?
    simcraft can be funny like that sometimes, log out specced into in canters ward and watch your dps dip by about 13k

  15. #15
    If your mage is a "low priority alt" which you seldom play, then you really have no place making statements about the class.

    You cannot claim that a particular spec is "easy" or "difficult" when you don't play the character often and don't play in actual raid environments. You are not familiar enough with the raid encounters to know why frost is (was) significantly below fire on virtually every fight, thus your statements can be classified as opinions, not fact.

    You are oblivious to the reason that damage breakdowns in raids differ significantly from breakdowns that simcraft produces, thus you are unaware of why fire parsed considerably higher than frost.

    I have played both specs through heroic content (currently 6/6H + 3/6H + 4/4N). I enjoy playing frost more than fire, but unfortunately fire produces more consistent and higher results. The only places frost proved useful were Feng progression, Garajal progression and Will of the Emperor doing utility jobs more than focusing on raw damage output.

    The nerf to fire is not something to gloat over, since mages of all specs will now be middle of the pack instead of at the top with one spec, making it harder to justify a raid spot for them over other caster classes which can do more damage on priority targets, especially on fights like heroic Elegon and heroic Protectors.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by citrique View Post
    The nerf to fire is not something to gloat over, since mages of all specs will now be middle of the pack instead of at the top with one spec, making it harder to justify a raid spot for them over other caster classes which can do more damage on priority targets, especially on fights like heroic Elegon and heroic Protectors.
    Do you think we should start considering arcane for fights requiring on-demand burst or just go frost? I'm not sure i'm comfortable with arcane. Switching over from such a wide and complete spec that is fire over the strange static thing that is arcane feels like a major letdown to me.

  17. #17
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Rijeka, Croatia
    Posts
    1,911
    Locking this thread so nobody feels like they should reply to it anymore.

    Magemaer, if you wish, you can start a new thread on your last subject separately.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •